From ian at hixie.ch  Tue Mar  1 16:19:16 2011
From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 00:19:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [html5] validator.nu and empty table tr
In-Reply-To: <2127463467.462454.1291286102189.JavaMail.root@cm-mail03.mozilla.org>
References: <2127463467.462454.1291286102189.JavaMail.root@cm-mail03.mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103012330090.26730@ps20323.dreamhostps.com>

On Thu, 2 Dec 2010, Henri Sivonen wrote:
> Ian Hickson wrote:
> > On Tue, 30 Nov 2010, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Error: Row 1 of a row group established by a tbody element has no
> > > > cells beginning on it.
> > >
> > > Apparently validator.nu plays its own game, using existing HTML
> > > recommendations rather than HTML 5 drafts in this issue.
> > 
> > More likely it's just a bug.
> 
> The code in question mostly predates the spec and has been extrapolated 
> from this expression of Hixie's opinion at one point in time: 
> http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2006-October/007430.html

I don't see anything about empty rows there. :-)


> I thought the spec at least at some point banned empty rows. Am I 
> mistaken or has the spec changed?

I am not sure.


> Why aren't empty rows banned?

So that you can fill them in later, as in:

   <table>
    <caption>First three results</caption>
    <tfoot>
     <tr id="headers">
    <tbody
     <tr id="row1">
     <tr id="row2">
     <tr id="row3">
   </table>
   <script>
    // get results
    // fill in table
   </script>

Note though that as currently specified, the table _would_ be in error if 
any of the rows had a cell in it, since then there'd be rows consisting 
entirely of empty slots.

(It's possible that I misspoke in the original thread; I don't recall if 
the table had any cells in it. If it did, then the validator isn't wrong.)


> Not banning <ul></ul> makes sense, but once you have 
> <table><tr></tr></table>, you might as well require it to be 
> <table><tr><td></td></tr></table>, since this requirement isn't more 
> substantially more onerous to authoring tools but helps catch 
> unintentionally empty rows.

I don't really see why it would be different. I do agree tables make this 
a little more complex since they're two-dimensional.

The way I look at this is that the goal is trying to catch likely 
authoring errors. This:

   <table>
    <tr> <td>bla bla </tr>
    <tr> <td>bla bla blaa <tr> <!-- notice typo here -->
    <tr> <td>bla </tr>
   </table>

...is a likely error, whereas a table with no cells (even if it has 
tables) seems highly unlikely to be an error.

However, the best thing to do here would be to look at real data. Do you 
have logs for these kinds of errors? Are they common? Are they 
false-positives? Do we get many false-negatives? (Presumably the latter 
question would require additional instrumenting of the code.)

-- 
Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

From diego.perini at gmail.com  Thu Mar  3 05:26:06 2011
From: diego.perini at gmail.com (Diego Perini)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 14:26:06 +0100
Subject: [html5] Event capture/bubbling question
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikLghYX-7viYLm3SQ6c+v4-_so17YGQvKRY9HGH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim-v54GRbK8rTyEkEOF77RQjvUrdqN+tMEtL3Sx@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikLghYX-7viYLm3SQ6c+v4-_so17YGQvKRY9HGH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimTykU7zmxJ3xcOs_Ej9e5KMTBAsdQ2UL9KSzJ1@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Berend-Jan Wever
<skylined at chromium.org> wrote:
> Hey all,
> I was experimenting with event capturing and bubbling when I noticed
> something odd: "capturing" event handlers are executed for the target of an
> event AFTER "bubbling" event handlers have been executed for that target.
> For example, if an event is fired on a "div" inside a "body", I see the
> following event listeners being fired in the same order in all mayor browser
> (Chrome, FF, MSIE (9 beta), Opera, Safari):
> 1) "capture" event listeners for the Document element
> 2) "capture" event listeners for the "html" element
> 3) "capture" event listeners for the "body" element
> 4) "bubble" ?event listeners for the "div" element
> 5) "capture" event listeners for the "div" element
> 6) "bubble" ?event listeners for the "body" element
> 7) "bubble" ?event listeners for the "html" element
> 8) "bubble" ?event listeners for the?Document?element
> This fifth entry is odd because:
> 1) I didn't expect to see "capturing" event listeners to get executed for
> the target at all.
> 2) I expected all "capturing" event handlers to be executed before any
> "bubbling" event listeners.
> Let me explain where these expectations come from by showing?how I interpret
> the spec
> at(http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-flow-capture):
> Section 1.2.1, paragraph 1:
>
> "Although all?EventListeners?on the?EventTarget?are guaranteed to be
> triggered by any event which is received by that?EventTarget, no
> specification is made as to the order in which they will receive the event
> with regards to the other?EventListeners?on the?EventTarget.?<snip>?If event
> capture or event bubbling is in use, the event flow will be modified as
> described in the sections below.".
>
> Section?1.2.2, paragraph 2:
>
> "when an event of the given type is dispatched toward a?descendant?of the
> capturing object, the event will trigger any capturing event listeners of
> the appropriate type which exist in the direct line between the top of the
> document and the event's target. This downward propagation continues until
> the event's target is reached.?A capturing?EventListener?will not be
> triggered by events dispatched directly to the?EventTarget?upon which it is
> registered."
>
> paragraph 3:
>
> "event capture only allows interception of events which are targeted
> at?descendants?of the capturing?EventTarget." and "event capture intercepts
> all events of the specified type targeted toward any of the
> capturer's?descendants.")."
>
> To me this means?"capture" event listeners are not executed for the target
> element.
> Section 1.2.2, paragraph 1.2.2:
>
> "If no additional capturers exist and?stopPropagation?has not been called,
> the event triggers the appropriate?EventListeners?on the target itself."
>
> This means?"bubbling" event listeners are executed for the target
> element?after the last "capturing" event listener has been executed.
> Here's how I interpret the spec step-by-step:
> 1) Create a list of all nodes from the target "upwards" through its parents
> towards the Document element. This list is not modified even if elements are
> removed or added while executing the next steps.
> == Capturing phase ==
> 2)?Set the current element to?the "topmost"?element at of the list.
> 3) Fire all "capture" event listeners for the current element (in any
> order).
> 4) If?"stopPropagation()" has been called go to step 12.
> 5) Set the current element to the next element?"down"?in the list.
> 6) If the current element is not the target element go to step 3.
> == Bubbling phase ==
> 7) Fire all "bubbling" event listeners for the current element (in any
> order).
> 8)?If?"stopPropagation()" has been called stop executing these steps.
> 9) If the current element is the Document element at the "top" of the list
> stop?executing these steps.
> 10)?Set the current element to the next element?"up"?in the list.
> 11) Go to step 7
> == Default behavior phase ==
> 12) if "preventDefault()" has been called, stop executing these steps
> 13) Execute the default browser behavior for the event and the target, such
> as opening a link when clicking on it.
> I've attached a test case that I used to find out about this. They way I see
> it, there are a few options:
> - I am interpreting the output of my test wrong,
> - The test has a bug that causes it to display the event order incorrectly,
> - The spec is not clear on this subject and I am interpreting it
> incorrectly,
> - The spec is incorrect,
> - All mayor browser have implemented "capturing" incorrectly.
> Let me know if you have any idea what is going on!
> Cheers,
> SkyLined
>
> Berend-Jan Wever (SkyLined at google.com) | Security Software Engineer
> Google Netherlands B.V. | Reg: Claude Debussylaan 34, 15th floor 1082 MD
> Amsterdam
> 34198589 | NETHERLANDS | VAT / Tax ID:- 812788515 B01
>
>
> Berend-Jan Wever (SkyLined at google.com) | Security Software Engineer
> Google Netherlands B.V. | Reg: Claude Debussylaan 34, 15th floor 1082 MD
> Amsterdam
> 34198589 | NETHERLANDS | VAT / Tax ID:- 812788515 B01
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>
>

Sorry for the delayed response to this ... I had marked this as
interesting to review the code but then had no time.

It seems that changing the order in which the capturing / bubbling
handlers are registered yields the expected results.

So in your code moving the registration of the bubbling handler after
that of the capturing handler gives a different order on the target (I
believe that is what you expected to be logged).

This means that the registration order on the target is also an
important part of the algorithm in current implementations (tested on
FF 3.6.14 / Safari 5.0.3 / Chrome 11 / Opera 11). I can't point you to
the exact point in the specification but since all newer browsers
behaves the same I believe they are following some of the rules
outlined there.

--
Diego

From ian at hixie.ch  Fri Mar  4 16:16:58 2011
From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 00:16:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [html5] sections and tables
In-Reply-To: <4D029B91.9030105@tsmchughs.com>
References: <4CFD8F32.5040802@tsmchughs.com>
	<AANLkTi=JYGhCd2RcBx9DnrDiBXaBd2U5iTFEpBc6r2DU@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D029B91.9030105@tsmchughs.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103050010280.26730@ps20323.dreamhostps.com>

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010, webmaster wrote:
> On 12/7/10 3:07 PM, Ricardo Tomasi wrote:
> > 
> > 2010/12/6 webmaster <webmaster at tsmchughs.com
> > <mailto:webmaster at tsmchughs.com>>
> > 
> > > <table>s cannot contain <section>s, and <tbody> does not participate
> > > in the document outline. So if I have a <table>, am I stuck using
> > > <h2> or <h3> or...? Is there anyway to use <h1> as I do in sections
> > > and have the outline work correctly?
> > 
> > In my understanding, nothing inside a table should need to appear in
> > the outline. Tables are for tabular data
> 
> Consider this table:
> 
> http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/dinner
> 
> It's tabular data. Each <tbody> represents a different section of the 
> table. Each has a subheading <h2>. In other pages of this site, as I 
> update them to html5, I've been replacing <h2> with <h1> and putting the 
> heading and its related content inside a <section> element. But I cannot 
> do that with this (or with other, similar, tables). Any suggestions?

<table>
 <tbody>
  <tr>
   <th scope="rowgroup">appetizers
  ...
  <tr>
   <th scope="row">Lobster Bisque
   <td>chopped Maine lobster...
   <td>$8
  ...
 <tbody>
  <tr>
   <th scope="rowgroup">sides
  ...

etc.

No need for sections, just treat it as one big table. Table headers can be 
given the semantics to make this work quite easily.

-- 
Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

From dadasden at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 05:23:23 2011
From: dadasden at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?4pml4pmlw4TOvc65zrfOsdGV0L3imaXimaU=?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 18:53:23 +0530
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
Message-ID: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>

Respected Sir,
I am very new to HTML...
I want to learn HTML from scratch to advanced HTML5..

So cn you please suggest me some sites and books or
other web resources for COMPLETE study material of HTML n other web
technologies...
Please help...

Thanking you in advance...

Avinash Sonawane
Pune Institute Of Computer Technology
2nd Year Engg.
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From mohu.mca at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 17:24:48 2011
From: mohu.mca at gmail.com (Mohanavel Ponnusamy)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 20:24:48 -0500
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>

Hi,
	You can check with w3schools site for beginners.

http://www.w3schools.com/
Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later you can get into lot of other tutorials.

Mohanavel Ponnusamy
mohu.mca at gmail.com
Challenges? It is the cross that I have to bear. So, enjoy every moment!!!


On Mar 11, 2011, at 8:23 AM, ??????????? wrote:

> Respected Sir,
> I am very new to HTML...
> I want to learn HTML from scratch to advanced HTML5..
> 
> So cn you please suggest me some sites and books or 
> other web resources for COMPLETE study material of HTML n other web technologies...
> Please help...
> 
> Thanking you in advance...
> 
> Avinash Sonawane
> Pune Institute Of Computer Technology
> 2nd Year Engg.
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org

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From mitch at niftyegg.com  Fri Mar 11 17:41:51 2011
From: mitch at niftyegg.com (Tom Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 17:41:51 -0800
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
	<D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinsUqVjZvX9rXxBCzWH-Xo9pt1WzY7pHi+oCX2c@mail.gmail.com>

Yes
and do not forget "view source" in many browsers.
Some of the 'famous' sites can be difficult to read
but for the vast majority the html  source is visible and sometimes well
commented.  This "view source" may be the single
most important reason for the explosive growth of the
web.


2011/3/11 Mohanavel Ponnusamy <mohu.mca at gmail.com>:
> Hi,
> You can check with w3schools site for beginners.
> http://www.w3schools.com/
> Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later
> you can get into lot of other tutorials.
.....
>
> On Mar 11, 2011, at 8:23 AM, ??????????? wrote:
>
> Respected Sir,
> I am very new to HTML...
> I want to learn HTML from scratch to advanced HTML5..
>
> So cn you please suggest me some sites and books or
> other web resources for COMPLETE study material of HTML n other web
> technologies...
> Please help...
>
> Thanking you in advance...
>
> Avinash Sonawane
> Pune Institute Of Computer Technology
> 2nd Year Engg.
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>
>



-- 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? T o m?? M i t c h e l l
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? mitch-at-niftyegg-dot-com
"My lifetime goal is to be the kind of person my dogs think I am."

From ott at mirix.org  Fri Mar 11 18:31:56 2011
From: ott at mirix.org (Matthias-Christian Ott)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 03:31:56 +0100
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
	<D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110312023156.GA6850@qp>


On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 08:24:48PM -0500, Mohanavel Ponnusamy wrote:
> Hi,
> 	You can check with w3schools site for beginners.
> 
> http://www.w3schools.com/
> Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later you can get into lot of other tutorials.

W3Schools received justified criticism lately, see http://w3fools.com/.

Regards,
Matthias-Christian

From mohu.mca at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 18:50:19 2011
From: mohu.mca at gmail.com (Mohanavel Ponnusamy)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 21:50:19 -0500
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <20110312023156.GA6850@qp>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
	<D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
	<20110312023156.GA6850@qp>
Message-ID: <451B816E-7D67-46CA-943A-FB6C1EEB4658@gmail.com>

Thanks for the pointer. Anyways, we did not intend to use W3S for reference. It is just for a beginner. But in the list, 

http://htmldog.com/ 

Seems to be good for a beginner. 
Coz, with slower web connectivity, watching a video tutorial will keep buffering.

Mohanavel Ponnusamy
mohu.mca at gmail.com
Challenges? It is the cross that I have to bear. So, enjoy every moment!!!


On Mar 11, 2011, at 9:31 PM, Matthias-Christian Ott wrote:

> 
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 08:24:48PM -0500, Mohanavel Ponnusamy wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 	You can check with w3schools site for beginners.
>> 
>> http://www.w3schools.com/
>> Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later you can get into lot of other tutorials.
> 
> W3Schools received justified criticism lately, see http://w3fools.com/.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias-Christian

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From mgainty at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 11 18:57:34 2011
From: mgainty at hotmail.com (Martin Gainty)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 21:57:34 -0500
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <20110312023156.GA6850@qp>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>,
	<D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>,
	<20110312023156.GA6850@qp>
Message-ID: <BLU142-W1133BD1DA1ED85D61AE505AECA0@phx.gbl>


Matthias-

I personally would like to see a more complete discussion of AJAX
all of the implementations i have seen thus far involve some variant of XMLHttpRequest refactoring

some web2.0 folk are getting excited about JQuery because it wraps XMLHttpRequest object with Ajax.Request 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMLHttpRequest

this is an unfortunate sticking point with recruiters who transpose conversational focus onto Ajax without
any mention of XMLHttpRequest to implement the request and a asynchronous return of XML DOM

Danke/Merci
Martin Gainty 
______________________________________________ 
Verzicht und Vertraulichkeitanmerkung/Note de d?ni et de confidentialit?
 
Diese Nachricht ist vertraulich. Sollten Sie nicht der vorgesehene Empfaenger sein, so bitten wir hoeflich um eine Mitteilung. Jede unbefugte Weiterleitung oder Fertigung einer Kopie ist unzulaessig. Diese Nachricht dient lediglich dem Austausch von Informationen und entfaltet keine rechtliche Bindungswirkung. Aufgrund der leichten Manipulierbarkeit von E-Mails koennen wir keine Haftung fuer den Inhalt uebernehmen.
Ce message est confidentiel et peut ?tre privil?gi?. Si vous n'?tes pas le destinataire pr?vu, nous te demandons avec bont? que pour satisfaire informez l'exp?diteur. N'importe quelle diffusion non autoris?e ou la copie de ceci est interdite. Ce message sert ? l'information seulement et n'aura pas n'importe quel effet l?galement obligatoire. ?tant donn? que les email peuvent facilement ?tre sujets ? la manipulation, nous ne pouvons accepter aucune responsabilit? pour le contenu fourni.




> Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 03:31:56 +0100
> From: ott at mirix.org
> To: mohu.mca at gmail.com
> CC: help at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 08:24:48PM -0500, Mohanavel Ponnusamy wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 	You can check with w3schools site for beginners.
> > 
> > http://www.w3schools.com/
> > Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later you can get into lot of other tutorials.
> 
> W3Schools received justified criticism lately, see http://w3fools.com/.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias-Christian
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
 		 	   		  
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From admin at blueboden.com  Fri Mar 18 20:01:24 2011
From: admin at blueboden.com (Jacob Kristensen)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 04:01:24 +0100
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
Message-ID: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>

Any reason why border-radius doesn't work on article elements?

I tested this earlier today, and i can't seem to get it to work in IE9. On top of that, i actually expected it would work in Firefox, using -moz-border-radius, but it didn't.
I tried the exact same code on a div element, and this worked fine.

There also seem to be a bug, where the second value gets applied a bit odd, also in both browsers.

As i understand border-radius, the first value should represent the radius of the horizontal plane, while the second value should represent the vertical plane radius.
This should then allow web designers to sort of "squeeze" the bend of the corners. But what this in reality seem to do, is to apply two different values like below:

-X--Y-
-Y--X-

This can be seen in the example that i posted on Brugbart, http://brugbart.com/Visions/css-border-radius

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From malterisio777 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 18 21:27:34 2011
From: malterisio777 at gmail.com (Martin Alterisio)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 01:27:34 -0300
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
In-Reply-To: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
References: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
Message-ID: <AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Jacob Kristensen <admin at blueboden.com>wrote:

>  Any reason why border-radius doesn't work on article elements?
>
> I tested this earlier today, and i can't seem to get it to work in IE9. On
> top of that, i actually expected it would work in Firefox, using
> -moz-border-radius, but it didn't.
> I tried the exact same code on a div element, and this worked fine.
>

border-radius is not HTML5, is CSS3, and it works just fine in HTML5 new
elements (just remember to use display:block where appropiate, some browsers
have no default styling for those new elements), you must be using it wrong.


> There also seem to be a bug, where the second value gets applied a bit odd,
> also in both browsers.
>
> As i understand border-radius, the first value should represent the radius
> of the horizontal plane, while the second value should represent the
> vertical plane radius.
> This should then allow web designers to sort of "squeeze" the bend of the
> corners. But what this in reality seem to do, is to apply two different
> values like below:
>
> -X--Y-
> -Y--X-
>
> This can be seen in the example that i posted on Brugbart,
> http://brugbart.com/Visions/css-border-radius
>

That's the expected behavior, not a bug.

http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/#the-border-radius

border-radius: <value for all corners>;
border-radius: <value for top-left and bottom-right> <value for top-right
and bottom-left>;
border-radius: <value for top-left> <value for top-right and bottom-left>
<value for bottom-right>;
border-radius: <value for top-left> <value for top-right> <value for
bottom-right> <value for bottom-left>;

If you want to have different radius for the x axis and y axis you have to
specify first the values for the x-axis then the values for the y-axis
separated by a / character, for example:

border-radius: 5px 10px;
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From william at techservsys.com  Sat Mar 19 07:33:19 2011
From: william at techservsys.com (bill)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:33:19 -0400
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
	<AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D84BEAF.10804@TechServSys.com>

On 3/19/2011 12:27 AM, Martin Alterisio wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Jacob Kristensen 
> <admin at blueboden.com <mailto:admin at blueboden.com>> wrote:
>
>     Any reason why border-radius doesn't work on article elements?
>     I tested this earlier today, and i can't seem to get it to
>     work in IE9. On top of that, i actually expected it would
>     work in Firefox, using -moz-border-radius, but it didn't.
>     I tried the exact same code on a div element, and this
>     worked fine.
>
>
> border-radius is not HTML5, is CSS3, and it works just fine in 
> HTML5 new elements (just remember to use display:block where 
> appropiate, some browsers have no default styling for those new 
> elements), you must be using it wrong.
>
>     There also seem to be a bug, where the second value gets
>     applied a bit odd, also in both browsers.
>     As i understand border-radius, the first value should
>     represent the radius of the horizontal plane, while the
>     second value should represent the vertical plane radius.
>     This should then allow web designers to sort of "squeeze"
>     the bend of the corners. But what this in reality seem to
>     do, is to apply two different values like below:
>     -X--Y-
>     -Y--X-
>     This can be seen in the example that i posted on Brugbart,
>     http://brugbart.com/Visions/css-border-radius
>
>
> That's the expected behavior, not a bug.
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/#the-border-radius
>
> border-radius: <value for all corners>;
> border-radius: <value for top-left and bottom-right> <value for 
> top-right and bottom-left>;
> border-radius: <value for top-left> <value for top-right and 
> bottom-left> <value for bottom-right>;
> border-radius: <value for top-left> <value for top-right> 
> <value for bottom-right> <value for bottom-left>;
>
> If you want to have different radius for the x axis and y axis 
> you have to specify first the values for the x-axis then the 
> values for the y-axis separated by a / character, for example:
>
> border-radius: 5px 10px;
>
Works as expected for the <article> on FireFox 3.6.15

-- 
Bill Drescher
william {at} TechServSys {dot} com

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From jukka.k.korpela at kolumbus.fi  Sat Mar 19 08:14:20 2011
From: jukka.k.korpela at kolumbus.fi (Jukka K. Korpela)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 17:14:20 +0200
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
	<AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D1FB9D1B4E34045AE1DD517959ABC90@JukanPC>

Martin Alterisio wrote:

>> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Jacob Kristensen
>> <admin at blueboden.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  Any reason why border-radius doesn't work on article elements?
>>>
>>> I tested this earlier today, and i can't seem to get it to work in
>>> IE9. On top of that, i actually expected it would work in Firefox,
>>> using -moz-border-radius, but it didn't.
>>> I tried the exact same code on a div element, and this worked fine.
>>
>> border-radius is not HTML5, is CSS3,

Well, the scope of HTML5 is not crystal clear, and CSS3 might be included in 
some people's opinion, but other lists (like css-discuss) are more suitable 
for discussing CSS issues, as a rule.

>> and it works just fine in HTML5 new elements

On browsers that recognize the new elements, yes, I guess.

>> (just remember to use display:block where appropiate,
>> some browsers have no default styling for those new elements), you
>> must be using it wrong.

According to the current HTML5 drafts, the article element is "expected" to 
have display: block as the default.

For IE 8 and earlier, you need to set the display property for article, but 
this alone doesn't help, since those browsers don't recognize the article 
element at all, even in the sense of applying CSS rules to it. You need to 
"teach" it to them using Javascript code like
document.createElement("article");
This won't make the borders rounded on those browsers, as they don't support 
border-radius, but at least they will honor your normal CSS settings like 
display: block, border settings in general, etc.

-- 
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ 


From admin at blueboden.com  Sat Mar 19 18:25:07 2011
From: admin at blueboden.com (Jacob Kristensen)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 02:25:07 +0100
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
In-Reply-To: <4D84BEAF.10804@TechServSys.com>
References: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
	<AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D84BEAF.10804@TechServSys.com>
Message-ID: <267FAF4088E24EBF98AE9DC1C36C9742@B1>

Thanks everyone. I don't know what went wrong the first time, perhaps IE9 tried to render my example in compatibility mode.

In any case, it appears to be working now. Can't wait to try out box-shadow with hardware rendering, hopefully that will eliminate my lag when resizing the browser.


Jacob Kristensen
http://blueboden.com/
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From zambo_gergo at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 20 03:13:44 2011
From: zambo_gergo at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-2?B?WuFtYvMgR2VyZ/U=?=)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 11:13:44 +0100
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
Message-ID: <DUB102-w167662A8B211735FA2C8CB93B20@phx.gbl>


Hi There,

This thing tricked me as well. The reason for this is that article is treated as inline while in normal cases article should be a block level element.All you need to do is to declare article as block in your CSS.
For IE Remy Sharp made a nice little Javascript file that makes styling possible in IE as well:
http://remysharp.com/2009/01/07/html5-enabling-script/
There you go. I hope this helps.

Greg 		 	   		  
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From webmaster at tsmchughs.com  Sun Mar 20 15:00:27 2011
From: webmaster at tsmchughs.com (webmaster)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 15:00:27 -0700
Subject: [html5] empty cells
Message-ID: <4D8678FB.2090107@tsmchughs.com>

I'm seeing what I think is a bug in Safari with regard to empty cells in 
a table. I have a restaurant dinner menu marked up as a table:

http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/dinner

The first <tr> of each <tbody> element contains only a <th> element 
(thanks to hixie for the scope="rowgroup" suggestion a couple of weeks 
ago). Each subsequent <tr> has 3 cells: a <th> and two <td>s. My style 
sheet has a rule to place a border-bottom on tbody tr:first-child. In 
Firefox, the border extends across the table, but not in Safari.

"Calculating the number of columns in a table" from the html 4 spec
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.4.3
says "user agents should base the number of columns on what is required 
by the rows" when there is no <col> or <colgroup> elements.

I actually tried inserting both <col> and <colgroup> elements, with no 
change. But if I explicitly add empty <td> elements, as in this menu

http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/glutenfree

then the border extends, even in Safari.

I tried to find something in the html5 spec, but I'm having trouble 
deciphering

http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#table-model

Is there something more recent regarding how browsers should calculate 
the number of cells in a table?

-- 
Brian T

From ricardobeat at gmail.com  Mon Mar 21 16:10:00 2011
From: ricardobeat at gmail.com (Ricardo Tomasi)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:10:00 -0300
Subject: [html5] empty cells
In-Reply-To: <4D8678FB.2090107@tsmchughs.com>
References: <4D8678FB.2090107@tsmchughs.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimBMcTYg6voKawFvd8g0Ngk0RU8ZYkdzQKnBTmc@mail.gmail.com>

This must be the most semantic menu ever ;)

Have you tried setting the colspan attribute (colspan="3") on the <th>? You
must explicitly tell the cell to occupy the space where other 2 cells are
expected.

http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/tabular-data.html#attributes-common-to-td-and-th-elements

2011/3/20 webmaster <webmaster at tsmchughs.com>

> I'm seeing what I think is a bug in Safari with regard to empty cells in a
> table. I have a restaurant dinner menu marked up as a table:
>
> http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/dinner
>
> The first <tr> of each <tbody> element contains only a <th> element (thanks
> to hixie for the scope="rowgroup" suggestion a couple of weeks ago). Each
> subsequent <tr> has 3 cells: a <th> and two <td>s. My style sheet has a rule
> to place a border-bottom on tbody tr:first-child. In Firefox, the border
> extends across the table, but not in Safari.
>
> "Calculating the number of columns in a table" from the html 4 spec
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.4.3
> says "user agents should base the number of columns on what is required by
> the rows" when there is no <col> or <colgroup> elements.
>
> I actually tried inserting both <col> and <colgroup> elements, with no
> change. But if I explicitly add empty <td> elements, as in this menu
>
> http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/glutenfree
>
> then the border extends, even in Safari.
>
> I tried to find something in the html5 spec, but I'm having trouble
> deciphering
>
> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#table-model
>
> Is there something more recent regarding how browsers should calculate the
> number of cells in a table?
>
> --
> Brian T
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>
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From mario.jur at gmail.com  Tue Mar 22 12:47:27 2011
From: mario.jur at gmail.com (Mario Juric)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 20:47:27 +0100
Subject: [html5] Help with html 5 security
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=zw+w+NOppWcVzD6neJiufcOW3FqaHzN==1QMk@mail.gmail.com>

First of all I would like to point out I'm fairly new to the concept of html
in general.


To the point.


I'd like to ask if anyone has any information on html5 security and how it
varies from previous versions of html, given the fact it's a work in
progress it's bound to have some glitches. Some examples of website based
attack, methods for security testing and any kind of simple html5 security
tutorial would be appreciated

So I would appreciate any and all help, weather by advice or any kind of
literature, links etc.


Thanks

-- 
univ.bacc.ing.traff Mario Juri?

Zagreba?ka avenija 2
10000 Zagreb
GSM:091/940-7361
_____________________
Let us arise above mere life and conquer the world of our dreams...
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From jblist at me.com  Thu Mar 24 14:03:00 2011
From: jblist at me.com (jblist at me.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:03:00 -0700
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
Message-ID: <88C7037F-CCC3-4C71-A7E6-7B72F700C64B@me.com>

Hi folks,

I have a form with two submit buttons. Based on which submit button is clicked, I'd like to present different confirmations prior to allowing the submission to proceed. Originally, I just used the onclick attribute with a function that essentially called confirm(). Returning false would cancel the submission. Each button had its own click event handler and everything was working as expected.

However, in attempting to make sure my markup is correct, I passed my page through the validator which complained about the return value in the click event handler. The error message was a bit cryptic, but I'm assuming that click events are not supposed to be cancelable (even though the browsers let me do that).

To do the "right thing" I figured I need to hook my javascript into the submit event stream instead. However, how can I determine which submit button fired the submission? Is this encoded in the submit event? Is there some state in the button itself I can query from the event handler? What's wrong with returning false from the click event handler to stop the form submission?

Best regards,
Joe


From jblist at me.com  Thu Mar 24 14:25:36 2011
From: jblist at me.com (Joseph Oreste Bruni)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:25:36 -0700
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
In-Reply-To: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
References: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
Message-ID: <76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>

Sorry. Here is the html boiled down to a test case:


<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<title>Test</title>
</head>
<body>
<form>
<p><input type=submit onclick="return confirm('Allow?')"></p>
</form>
</body>
</html>


The error message is as follows:

Error: Bad value return confirm('Allow?') for attribute onclick on element input: invalid return
From line 8, column 4; to line 8, column 57
<form>?<p><input type=submit onclick="return confirm('Allow?')"></p>?<


Perhaps only the validator is invalid?




On Mar 24, 2011, at 2:15 PM, Randy Drielinger wrote:

> What was the exact error message? That helps :)
> 
> ------Original Message------
> From: jblist at me.com
> Sender: help-bounces at lists.whatwg.org
> To: help at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
> Sent: Mar 24, 2011 22:03
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I have a form with two submit buttons. Based on which submit button is clicked, I'd like to present different confirmations prior to allowing the submission to proceed. Originally, I just used the onclick attribute with a function that essentially called confirm(). Returning false would cancel the submission. Each button had its own click event handler and everything was working as expected.
> 
> However, in attempting to make sure my markup is correct, I passed my page through the validator which complained about the return value in the click event handler. The error message was a bit cryptic, but I'm assuming that click events are not supposed to be cancelable (even though the browsers let me do that).
> 
> To do the "right thing" I figured I need to hook my javascript into the submit event stream instead. However, how can I determine which submit button fired the submission? Is this encoded in the submit event? Is there some state in the button itself I can query from the event handler? What's wrong with returning false from the click event handler to stop the form submission?
> 
> Best regards,
> Joe
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
> 


From jblist at me.com  Thu Mar 24 16:07:09 2011
From: jblist at me.com (Joseph Oreste Bruni)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:07:09 -0700
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
In-Reply-To: <001401cbea71$0965c660$1c315320$@bc.ca>
References: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
	<76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>
	<001401cbea71$0965c660$1c315320$@bc.ca>
Message-ID: <99D8F84E-9E99-46EC-BD15-C8E7D5B3C578@me.com>

This does not answer my question. If onclick="foo()" is considered valid why is onclick="return foo()" not? You are suggesting that onclick="foo()" is not valid.



On Mar 24, 2011, at 3:15 PM, Walter Beardwood wrote:

> http://forum.jquery.com/topic/jquery-onclick-event-on-a-href-calls-a-function-where-to-return-false-to-prevent-redirection
> 
> "Inline JavaScript is generally frowned upon nowadays. A better approach, if you can do it, is to separate your behavior from your
> mark-up, ..."
> 
> ---
> 
> This might help.
> -WB
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: help-bounces at lists.whatwg.org [mailto:help-bounces at lists.whatwg.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Oreste Bruni
> Sent: March-24-11 2:26 PM
> To: help at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
> 
> Sorry. Here is the html boiled down to a test case:
> 
> 
> <!DOCTYPE html>
> <html>
> <head>
> <title>Test</title>
> </head>
> <body>
> <form>
> <p><input type=submit onclick="return confirm('Allow?')"></p>
> </form>
> </body>
> </html>
> 
> 
> The error message is as follows:
> 
> Error: Bad value return confirm('Allow?') for attribute onclick on element input: invalid return
> From line 8, column 4; to line 8, column 57
> <form>?<p><input type=submit onclick="return confirm('Allow?')"></p>?<
> 
> 
> Perhaps only the validator is invalid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 24, 2011, at 2:15 PM, Randy Drielinger wrote:
> 
>> What was the exact error message? That helps :)
>> 
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: jblist at me.com
>> Sender: help-bounces at lists.whatwg.org
>> To: help at lists.whatwg.org
>> Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
>> Sent: Mar 24, 2011 22:03
>> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> I have a form with two submit buttons. Based on which submit button is clicked, I'd like to present different confirmations prior to allowing the submission to proceed. Originally, I just used the onclick attribute with a function that essentially called confirm(). Returning false would cancel the submission. Each button had its own click event handler and everything was working as expected.
>> 
>> However, in attempting to make sure my markup is correct, I passed my page through the validator which complained about the return value in the click event handler. The error message was a bit cryptic, but I'm assuming that click events are not supposed to be cancelable (even though the browsers let me do that).
>> 
>> To do the "right thing" I figured I need to hook my javascript into the submit event stream instead. However, how can I determine which submit button fired the submission? Is this encoded in the submit event? Is there some state in the button itself I can query from the event handler? What's wrong with returning false from the click event handler to stop the form submission?
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Joe
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Help mailing list
>> Help at lists.whatwg.org
>> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> The College of New Caledonia
> Visit us at http://www.cnc.bc.ca
> Virus scanning is done on all incoming and outgoing email.
> Anti-spam information for CNC can be found at http://gateway.cnc.bc.ca
> -------------------------------------------------------------------


From jukka.k.korpela at kolumbus.fi  Thu Mar 24 22:22:31 2011
From: jukka.k.korpela at kolumbus.fi (Jukka K. Korpela)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 07:22:31 +0200
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
In-Reply-To: <76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>
References: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
	<76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>
Message-ID: <CC1218F625E5412BA5E3E39B6FC38A2F@JukanPC>

Joseph Oreste Bruni wrote:

> Error: Bad value return confirm('Allow?') for attribute onclick on
> element input:
[...]
> Perhaps only the validator is invalid?

This was a bug in the validator, first (?) reported in January:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-validator/2011Jan/0057.html

It seems that the bug has now been fixed. Your markup passes validation, and 
so do other cases that were previously flagged as invalid.

-- 
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ 


From jblist at me.com  Fri Mar 25 09:21:25 2011
From: jblist at me.com (Joseph Oreste Bruni)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:21:25 -0700
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
In-Reply-To: <CC1218F625E5412BA5E3E39B6FC38A2F@JukanPC>
References: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
	<76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>
	<CC1218F625E5412BA5E3E39B6FC38A2F@JukanPC>
Message-ID: <83116E89-4296-43BE-81AE-A553AD8EB0A5@me.com>


On Mar 24, 2011, at 10:22 PM, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

> Joseph Oreste Bruni wrote:
> 
>> Error: Bad value return confirm('Allow?') for attribute onclick on
>> element input:
> [...]
>> Perhaps only the validator is invalid?
> 
> This was a bug in the validator, first (?) reported in January:
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-validator/2011Jan/0057.html
> 
> It seems that the bug has now been fixed. Your markup passes validation, and so do other cases that were previously flagged as invalid.
> 
> -- 
> Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ 


Apparently I have been ambiguous about assuming the identity of "THE" validator. The one I was using still seems to have the error that was corrected previously. I was using the one located at http://html5.validator.nu/ not the one located at http://validator.w3.org/.

When I use the one at w3.org the code checks out.

Thanks for your answer!

-Joe


From ian at hixie.ch  Tue Mar  1 16:19:16 2011
From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 00:19:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [html5] validator.nu and empty table tr
In-Reply-To: <2127463467.462454.1291286102189.JavaMail.root@cm-mail03.mozilla.org>
References: <2127463467.462454.1291286102189.JavaMail.root@cm-mail03.mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103012330090.26730@ps20323.dreamhostps.com>

On Thu, 2 Dec 2010, Henri Sivonen wrote:
> Ian Hickson wrote:
> > On Tue, 30 Nov 2010, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Error: Row 1 of a row group established by a tbody element has no
> > > > cells beginning on it.
> > >
> > > Apparently validator.nu plays its own game, using existing HTML
> > > recommendations rather than HTML 5 drafts in this issue.
> > 
> > More likely it's just a bug.
> 
> The code in question mostly predates the spec and has been extrapolated 
> from this expression of Hixie's opinion at one point in time: 
> http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2006-October/007430.html

I don't see anything about empty rows there. :-)


> I thought the spec at least at some point banned empty rows. Am I 
> mistaken or has the spec changed?

I am not sure.


> Why aren't empty rows banned?

So that you can fill them in later, as in:

   <table>
    <caption>First three results</caption>
    <tfoot>
     <tr id="headers">
    <tbody
     <tr id="row1">
     <tr id="row2">
     <tr id="row3">
   </table>
   <script>
    // get results
    // fill in table
   </script>

Note though that as currently specified, the table _would_ be in error if 
any of the rows had a cell in it, since then there'd be rows consisting 
entirely of empty slots.

(It's possible that I misspoke in the original thread; I don't recall if 
the table had any cells in it. If it did, then the validator isn't wrong.)


> Not banning <ul></ul> makes sense, but once you have 
> <table><tr></tr></table>, you might as well require it to be 
> <table><tr><td></td></tr></table>, since this requirement isn't more 
> substantially more onerous to authoring tools but helps catch 
> unintentionally empty rows.

I don't really see why it would be different. I do agree tables make this 
a little more complex since they're two-dimensional.

The way I look at this is that the goal is trying to catch likely 
authoring errors. This:

   <table>
    <tr> <td>bla bla </tr>
    <tr> <td>bla bla blaa <tr> <!-- notice typo here -->
    <tr> <td>bla </tr>
   </table>

...is a likely error, whereas a table with no cells (even if it has 
tables) seems highly unlikely to be an error.

However, the best thing to do here would be to look at real data. Do you 
have logs for these kinds of errors? Are they common? Are they 
false-positives? Do we get many false-negatives? (Presumably the latter 
question would require additional instrumenting of the code.)

-- 
Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'


From diego.perini at gmail.com  Thu Mar  3 05:26:06 2011
From: diego.perini at gmail.com (Diego Perini)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 14:26:06 +0100
Subject: [html5] Event capture/bubbling question
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikLghYX-7viYLm3SQ6c+v4-_so17YGQvKRY9HGH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim-v54GRbK8rTyEkEOF77RQjvUrdqN+tMEtL3Sx@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikLghYX-7viYLm3SQ6c+v4-_so17YGQvKRY9HGH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimTykU7zmxJ3xcOs_Ej9e5KMTBAsdQ2UL9KSzJ1@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Berend-Jan Wever
<skylined at chromium.org> wrote:
> Hey all,
> I was experimenting with event capturing and bubbling when I noticed
> something odd: "capturing" event handlers are executed for the target of an
> event AFTER "bubbling" event handlers have been executed for that target.
> For example, if an event is fired on a "div" inside a "body", I see the
> following event listeners being fired in the same order in all mayor browser
> (Chrome, FF, MSIE (9 beta), Opera, Safari):
> 1) "capture" event listeners for the Document element
> 2) "capture" event listeners for the "html" element
> 3) "capture" event listeners for the "body" element
> 4) "bubble" ?event listeners for the "div" element
> 5) "capture" event listeners for the "div" element
> 6) "bubble" ?event listeners for the "body" element
> 7) "bubble" ?event listeners for the "html" element
> 8) "bubble" ?event listeners for the?Document?element
> This fifth entry is odd because:
> 1) I didn't expect to see "capturing" event listeners to get executed for
> the target at all.
> 2) I expected all "capturing" event handlers to be executed before any
> "bubbling" event listeners.
> Let me explain where these expectations come from by showing?how I interpret
> the spec
> at(http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-flow-capture):
> Section 1.2.1, paragraph 1:
>
> "Although all?EventListeners?on the?EventTarget?are guaranteed to be
> triggered by any event which is received by that?EventTarget, no
> specification is made as to the order in which they will receive the event
> with regards to the other?EventListeners?on the?EventTarget.?<snip>?If event
> capture or event bubbling is in use, the event flow will be modified as
> described in the sections below.".
>
> Section?1.2.2, paragraph 2:
>
> "when an event of the given type is dispatched toward a?descendant?of the
> capturing object, the event will trigger any capturing event listeners of
> the appropriate type which exist in the direct line between the top of the
> document and the event's target. This downward propagation continues until
> the event's target is reached.?A capturing?EventListener?will not be
> triggered by events dispatched directly to the?EventTarget?upon which it is
> registered."
>
> paragraph 3:
>
> "event capture only allows interception of events which are targeted
> at?descendants?of the capturing?EventTarget." and "event capture intercepts
> all events of the specified type targeted toward any of the
> capturer's?descendants.")."
>
> To me this means?"capture" event listeners are not executed for the target
> element.
> Section 1.2.2, paragraph 1.2.2:
>
> "If no additional capturers exist and?stopPropagation?has not been called,
> the event triggers the appropriate?EventListeners?on the target itself."
>
> This means?"bubbling" event listeners are executed for the target
> element?after the last "capturing" event listener has been executed.
> Here's how I interpret the spec step-by-step:
> 1) Create a list of all nodes from the target "upwards" through its parents
> towards the Document element. This list is not modified even if elements are
> removed or added while executing the next steps.
> == Capturing phase ==
> 2)?Set the current element to?the "topmost"?element at of the list.
> 3) Fire all "capture" event listeners for the current element (in any
> order).
> 4) If?"stopPropagation()" has been called go to step 12.
> 5) Set the current element to the next element?"down"?in the list.
> 6) If the current element is not the target element go to step 3.
> == Bubbling phase ==
> 7) Fire all "bubbling" event listeners for the current element (in any
> order).
> 8)?If?"stopPropagation()" has been called stop executing these steps.
> 9) If the current element is the Document element at the "top" of the list
> stop?executing these steps.
> 10)?Set the current element to the next element?"up"?in the list.
> 11) Go to step 7
> == Default behavior phase ==
> 12) if "preventDefault()" has been called, stop executing these steps
> 13) Execute the default browser behavior for the event and the target, such
> as opening a link when clicking on it.
> I've attached a test case that I used to find out about this. They way I see
> it, there are a few options:
> - I am interpreting the output of my test wrong,
> - The test has a bug that causes it to display the event order incorrectly,
> - The spec is not clear on this subject and I am interpreting it
> incorrectly,
> - The spec is incorrect,
> - All mayor browser have implemented "capturing" incorrectly.
> Let me know if you have any idea what is going on!
> Cheers,
> SkyLined
>
> Berend-Jan Wever (SkyLined at google.com) | Security Software Engineer
> Google Netherlands B.V. | Reg: Claude Debussylaan 34, 15th floor 1082 MD
> Amsterdam
> 34198589 | NETHERLANDS | VAT / Tax ID:- 812788515 B01
>
>
> Berend-Jan Wever (SkyLined at google.com) | Security Software Engineer
> Google Netherlands B.V. | Reg: Claude Debussylaan 34, 15th floor 1082 MD
> Amsterdam
> 34198589 | NETHERLANDS | VAT / Tax ID:- 812788515 B01
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>
>

Sorry for the delayed response to this ... I had marked this as
interesting to review the code but then had no time.

It seems that changing the order in which the capturing / bubbling
handlers are registered yields the expected results.

So in your code moving the registration of the bubbling handler after
that of the capturing handler gives a different order on the target (I
believe that is what you expected to be logged).

This means that the registration order on the target is also an
important part of the algorithm in current implementations (tested on
FF 3.6.14 / Safari 5.0.3 / Chrome 11 / Opera 11). I can't point you to
the exact point in the specification but since all newer browsers
behaves the same I believe they are following some of the rules
outlined there.

--
Diego


From ian at hixie.ch  Fri Mar  4 16:16:58 2011
From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 00:16:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [html5] sections and tables
In-Reply-To: <4D029B91.9030105@tsmchughs.com>
References: <4CFD8F32.5040802@tsmchughs.com>
	<AANLkTi=JYGhCd2RcBx9DnrDiBXaBd2U5iTFEpBc6r2DU@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D029B91.9030105@tsmchughs.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103050010280.26730@ps20323.dreamhostps.com>

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010, webmaster wrote:
> On 12/7/10 3:07 PM, Ricardo Tomasi wrote:
> > 
> > 2010/12/6 webmaster <webmaster at tsmchughs.com
> > <mailto:webmaster at tsmchughs.com>>
> > 
> > > <table>s cannot contain <section>s, and <tbody> does not participate
> > > in the document outline. So if I have a <table>, am I stuck using
> > > <h2> or <h3> or...? Is there anyway to use <h1> as I do in sections
> > > and have the outline work correctly?
> > 
> > In my understanding, nothing inside a table should need to appear in
> > the outline. Tables are for tabular data
> 
> Consider this table:
> 
> http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/dinner
> 
> It's tabular data. Each <tbody> represents a different section of the 
> table. Each has a subheading <h2>. In other pages of this site, as I 
> update them to html5, I've been replacing <h2> with <h1> and putting the 
> heading and its related content inside a <section> element. But I cannot 
> do that with this (or with other, similar, tables). Any suggestions?

<table>
 <tbody>
  <tr>
   <th scope="rowgroup">appetizers
  ...
  <tr>
   <th scope="row">Lobster Bisque
   <td>chopped Maine lobster...
   <td>$8
  ...
 <tbody>
  <tr>
   <th scope="rowgroup">sides
  ...

etc.

No need for sections, just treat it as one big table. Table headers can be 
given the semantics to make this work quite easily.

-- 
Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'


From dadasden at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 05:23:23 2011
From: dadasden at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?4pml4pmlw4TOvc65zrfOsdGV0L3imaXimaU=?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 18:53:23 +0530
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
Message-ID: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>

Respected Sir,
I am very new to HTML...
I want to learn HTML from scratch to advanced HTML5..

So cn you please suggest me some sites and books or
other web resources for COMPLETE study material of HTML n other web
technologies...
Please help...

Thanking you in advance...

Avinash Sonawane
Pune Institute Of Computer Technology
2nd Year Engg.
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From mohu.mca at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 17:24:48 2011
From: mohu.mca at gmail.com (Mohanavel Ponnusamy)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 20:24:48 -0500
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>

Hi,
	You can check with w3schools site for beginners.

http://www.w3schools.com/
Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later you can get into lot of other tutorials.

Mohanavel Ponnusamy
mohu.mca at gmail.com
Challenges? It is the cross that I have to bear. So, enjoy every moment!!!


On Mar 11, 2011, at 8:23 AM, ??????????? wrote:

> Respected Sir,
> I am very new to HTML...
> I want to learn HTML from scratch to advanced HTML5..
> 
> So cn you please suggest me some sites and books or 
> other web resources for COMPLETE study material of HTML n other web technologies...
> Please help...
> 
> Thanking you in advance...
> 
> Avinash Sonawane
> Pune Institute Of Computer Technology
> 2nd Year Engg.
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org

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From mitch at niftyegg.com  Fri Mar 11 17:41:51 2011
From: mitch at niftyegg.com (Tom Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 17:41:51 -0800
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
	<D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinsUqVjZvX9rXxBCzWH-Xo9pt1WzY7pHi+oCX2c@mail.gmail.com>

Yes
and do not forget "view source" in many browsers.
Some of the 'famous' sites can be difficult to read
but for the vast majority the html  source is visible and sometimes well
commented.  This "view source" may be the single
most important reason for the explosive growth of the
web.


2011/3/11 Mohanavel Ponnusamy <mohu.mca at gmail.com>:
> Hi,
> You can check with w3schools site for beginners.
> http://www.w3schools.com/
> Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later
> you can get into lot of other tutorials.
.....
>
> On Mar 11, 2011, at 8:23 AM, ??????????? wrote:
>
> Respected Sir,
> I am very new to HTML...
> I want to learn HTML from scratch to advanced HTML5..
>
> So cn you please suggest me some sites and books or
> other web resources for COMPLETE study material of HTML n other web
> technologies...
> Please help...
>
> Thanking you in advance...
>
> Avinash Sonawane
> Pune Institute Of Computer Technology
> 2nd Year Engg.
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>
>



-- 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? T o m?? M i t c h e l l
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? mitch-at-niftyegg-dot-com
"My lifetime goal is to be the kind of person my dogs think I am."


From ott at mirix.org  Fri Mar 11 18:31:56 2011
From: ott at mirix.org (Matthias-Christian Ott)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 03:31:56 +0100
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
	<D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110312023156.GA6850@qp>


On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 08:24:48PM -0500, Mohanavel Ponnusamy wrote:
> Hi,
> 	You can check with w3schools site for beginners.
> 
> http://www.w3schools.com/
> Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later you can get into lot of other tutorials.

W3Schools received justified criticism lately, see http://w3fools.com/.

Regards,
Matthias-Christian


From mohu.mca at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 18:50:19 2011
From: mohu.mca at gmail.com (Mohanavel Ponnusamy)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 21:50:19 -0500
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <20110312023156.GA6850@qp>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
	<D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
	<20110312023156.GA6850@qp>
Message-ID: <451B816E-7D67-46CA-943A-FB6C1EEB4658@gmail.com>

Thanks for the pointer. Anyways, we did not intend to use W3S for reference. It is just for a beginner. But in the list, 

http://htmldog.com/ 

Seems to be good for a beginner. 
Coz, with slower web connectivity, watching a video tutorial will keep buffering.

Mohanavel Ponnusamy
mohu.mca at gmail.com
Challenges? It is the cross that I have to bear. So, enjoy every moment!!!


On Mar 11, 2011, at 9:31 PM, Matthias-Christian Ott wrote:

> 
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 08:24:48PM -0500, Mohanavel Ponnusamy wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 	You can check with w3schools site for beginners.
>> 
>> http://www.w3schools.com/
>> Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later you can get into lot of other tutorials.
> 
> W3Schools received justified criticism lately, see http://w3fools.com/.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias-Christian

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From mgainty at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 11 18:57:34 2011
From: mgainty at hotmail.com (Martin Gainty)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 21:57:34 -0500
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <20110312023156.GA6850@qp>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>,
	<D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>,
	<20110312023156.GA6850@qp>
Message-ID: <BLU142-W1133BD1DA1ED85D61AE505AECA0@phx.gbl>


Matthias-

I personally would like to see a more complete discussion of AJAX
all of the implementations i have seen thus far involve some variant of XMLHttpRequest refactoring

some web2.0 folk are getting excited about JQuery because it wraps XMLHttpRequest object with Ajax.Request 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMLHttpRequest

this is an unfortunate sticking point with recruiters who transpose conversational focus onto Ajax without
any mention of XMLHttpRequest to implement the request and a asynchronous return of XML DOM

Danke/Merci
Martin Gainty 
______________________________________________ 
Verzicht und Vertraulichkeitanmerkung/Note de d?ni et de confidentialit?
 
Diese Nachricht ist vertraulich. Sollten Sie nicht der vorgesehene Empfaenger sein, so bitten wir hoeflich um eine Mitteilung. Jede unbefugte Weiterleitung oder Fertigung einer Kopie ist unzulaessig. Diese Nachricht dient lediglich dem Austausch von Informationen und entfaltet keine rechtliche Bindungswirkung. Aufgrund der leichten Manipulierbarkeit von E-Mails koennen wir keine Haftung fuer den Inhalt uebernehmen.
Ce message est confidentiel et peut ?tre privil?gi?. Si vous n'?tes pas le destinataire pr?vu, nous te demandons avec bont? que pour satisfaire informez l'exp?diteur. N'importe quelle diffusion non autoris?e ou la copie de ceci est interdite. Ce message sert ? l'information seulement et n'aura pas n'importe quel effet l?galement obligatoire. ?tant donn? que les email peuvent facilement ?tre sujets ? la manipulation, nous ne pouvons accepter aucune responsabilit? pour le contenu fourni.




> Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 03:31:56 +0100
> From: ott at mirix.org
> To: mohu.mca at gmail.com
> CC: help at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 08:24:48PM -0500, Mohanavel Ponnusamy wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 	You can check with w3schools site for beginners.
> > 
> > http://www.w3schools.com/
> > Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later you can get into lot of other tutorials.
> 
> W3Schools received justified criticism lately, see http://w3fools.com/.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias-Christian
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
 		 	   		  
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From admin at blueboden.com  Fri Mar 18 20:01:24 2011
From: admin at blueboden.com (Jacob Kristensen)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 04:01:24 +0100
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
Message-ID: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>

Any reason why border-radius doesn't work on article elements?

I tested this earlier today, and i can't seem to get it to work in IE9. On top of that, i actually expected it would work in Firefox, using -moz-border-radius, but it didn't.
I tried the exact same code on a div element, and this worked fine.

There also seem to be a bug, where the second value gets applied a bit odd, also in both browsers.

As i understand border-radius, the first value should represent the radius of the horizontal plane, while the second value should represent the vertical plane radius.
This should then allow web designers to sort of "squeeze" the bend of the corners. But what this in reality seem to do, is to apply two different values like below:

-X--Y-
-Y--X-

This can be seen in the example that i posted on Brugbart, http://brugbart.com/Visions/css-border-radius

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From malterisio777 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 18 21:27:34 2011
From: malterisio777 at gmail.com (Martin Alterisio)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 01:27:34 -0300
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
In-Reply-To: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
References: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
Message-ID: <AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Jacob Kristensen <admin at blueboden.com>wrote:

>  Any reason why border-radius doesn't work on article elements?
>
> I tested this earlier today, and i can't seem to get it to work in IE9. On
> top of that, i actually expected it would work in Firefox, using
> -moz-border-radius, but it didn't.
> I tried the exact same code on a div element, and this worked fine.
>

border-radius is not HTML5, is CSS3, and it works just fine in HTML5 new
elements (just remember to use display:block where appropiate, some browsers
have no default styling for those new elements), you must be using it wrong.


> There also seem to be a bug, where the second value gets applied a bit odd,
> also in both browsers.
>
> As i understand border-radius, the first value should represent the radius
> of the horizontal plane, while the second value should represent the
> vertical plane radius.
> This should then allow web designers to sort of "squeeze" the bend of the
> corners. But what this in reality seem to do, is to apply two different
> values like below:
>
> -X--Y-
> -Y--X-
>
> This can be seen in the example that i posted on Brugbart,
> http://brugbart.com/Visions/css-border-radius
>

That's the expected behavior, not a bug.

http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/#the-border-radius

border-radius: <value for all corners>;
border-radius: <value for top-left and bottom-right> <value for top-right
and bottom-left>;
border-radius: <value for top-left> <value for top-right and bottom-left>
<value for bottom-right>;
border-radius: <value for top-left> <value for top-right> <value for
bottom-right> <value for bottom-left>;

If you want to have different radius for the x axis and y axis you have to
specify first the values for the x-axis then the values for the y-axis
separated by a / character, for example:

border-radius: 5px 10px;
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From william at techservsys.com  Sat Mar 19 07:33:19 2011
From: william at techservsys.com (bill)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:33:19 -0400
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
	<AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D84BEAF.10804@TechServSys.com>

On 3/19/2011 12:27 AM, Martin Alterisio wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Jacob Kristensen 
> <admin at blueboden.com <mailto:admin at blueboden.com>> wrote:
>
>     Any reason why border-radius doesn't work on article elements?
>     I tested this earlier today, and i can't seem to get it to
>     work in IE9. On top of that, i actually expected it would
>     work in Firefox, using -moz-border-radius, but it didn't.
>     I tried the exact same code on a div element, and this
>     worked fine.
>
>
> border-radius is not HTML5, is CSS3, and it works just fine in 
> HTML5 new elements (just remember to use display:block where 
> appropiate, some browsers have no default styling for those new 
> elements), you must be using it wrong.
>
>     There also seem to be a bug, where the second value gets
>     applied a bit odd, also in both browsers.
>     As i understand border-radius, the first value should
>     represent the radius of the horizontal plane, while the
>     second value should represent the vertical plane radius.
>     This should then allow web designers to sort of "squeeze"
>     the bend of the corners. But what this in reality seem to
>     do, is to apply two different values like below:
>     -X--Y-
>     -Y--X-
>     This can be seen in the example that i posted on Brugbart,
>     http://brugbart.com/Visions/css-border-radius
>
>
> That's the expected behavior, not a bug.
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/#the-border-radius
>
> border-radius: <value for all corners>;
> border-radius: <value for top-left and bottom-right> <value for 
> top-right and bottom-left>;
> border-radius: <value for top-left> <value for top-right and 
> bottom-left> <value for bottom-right>;
> border-radius: <value for top-left> <value for top-right> 
> <value for bottom-right> <value for bottom-left>;
>
> If you want to have different radius for the x axis and y axis 
> you have to specify first the values for the x-axis then the 
> values for the y-axis separated by a / character, for example:
>
> border-radius: 5px 10px;
>
Works as expected for the <article> on FireFox 3.6.15

-- 
Bill Drescher
william {at} TechServSys {dot} com

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From jukka.k.korpela at kolumbus.fi  Sat Mar 19 08:14:20 2011
From: jukka.k.korpela at kolumbus.fi (Jukka K. Korpela)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 17:14:20 +0200
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
	<AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D1FB9D1B4E34045AE1DD517959ABC90@JukanPC>

Martin Alterisio wrote:

>> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Jacob Kristensen
>> <admin at blueboden.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  Any reason why border-radius doesn't work on article elements?
>>>
>>> I tested this earlier today, and i can't seem to get it to work in
>>> IE9. On top of that, i actually expected it would work in Firefox,
>>> using -moz-border-radius, but it didn't.
>>> I tried the exact same code on a div element, and this worked fine.
>>
>> border-radius is not HTML5, is CSS3,

Well, the scope of HTML5 is not crystal clear, and CSS3 might be included in 
some people's opinion, but other lists (like css-discuss) are more suitable 
for discussing CSS issues, as a rule.

>> and it works just fine in HTML5 new elements

On browsers that recognize the new elements, yes, I guess.

>> (just remember to use display:block where appropiate,
>> some browsers have no default styling for those new elements), you
>> must be using it wrong.

According to the current HTML5 drafts, the article element is "expected" to 
have display: block as the default.

For IE 8 and earlier, you need to set the display property for article, but 
this alone doesn't help, since those browsers don't recognize the article 
element at all, even in the sense of applying CSS rules to it. You need to 
"teach" it to them using Javascript code like
document.createElement("article");
This won't make the borders rounded on those browsers, as they don't support 
border-radius, but at least they will honor your normal CSS settings like 
display: block, border settings in general, etc.

-- 
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ 



From admin at blueboden.com  Sat Mar 19 18:25:07 2011
From: admin at blueboden.com (Jacob Kristensen)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 02:25:07 +0100
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
In-Reply-To: <4D84BEAF.10804@TechServSys.com>
References: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
	<AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D84BEAF.10804@TechServSys.com>
Message-ID: <267FAF4088E24EBF98AE9DC1C36C9742@B1>

Thanks everyone. I don't know what went wrong the first time, perhaps IE9 tried to render my example in compatibility mode.

In any case, it appears to be working now. Can't wait to try out box-shadow with hardware rendering, hopefully that will eliminate my lag when resizing the browser.


Jacob Kristensen
http://blueboden.com/
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From zambo_gergo at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 20 03:13:44 2011
From: zambo_gergo at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-2?B?WuFtYvMgR2VyZ/U=?=)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 11:13:44 +0100
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
Message-ID: <DUB102-w167662A8B211735FA2C8CB93B20@phx.gbl>


Hi There,

This thing tricked me as well. The reason for this is that article is treated as inline while in normal cases article should be a block level element.All you need to do is to declare article as block in your CSS.
For IE Remy Sharp made a nice little Javascript file that makes styling possible in IE as well:
http://remysharp.com/2009/01/07/html5-enabling-script/
There you go. I hope this helps.

Greg 		 	   		  
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From webmaster at tsmchughs.com  Sun Mar 20 15:00:27 2011
From: webmaster at tsmchughs.com (webmaster)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 15:00:27 -0700
Subject: [html5] empty cells
Message-ID: <4D8678FB.2090107@tsmchughs.com>

I'm seeing what I think is a bug in Safari with regard to empty cells in 
a table. I have a restaurant dinner menu marked up as a table:

http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/dinner

The first <tr> of each <tbody> element contains only a <th> element 
(thanks to hixie for the scope="rowgroup" suggestion a couple of weeks 
ago). Each subsequent <tr> has 3 cells: a <th> and two <td>s. My style 
sheet has a rule to place a border-bottom on tbody tr:first-child. In 
Firefox, the border extends across the table, but not in Safari.

"Calculating the number of columns in a table" from the html 4 spec
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.4.3
says "user agents should base the number of columns on what is required 
by the rows" when there is no <col> or <colgroup> elements.

I actually tried inserting both <col> and <colgroup> elements, with no 
change. But if I explicitly add empty <td> elements, as in this menu

http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/glutenfree

then the border extends, even in Safari.

I tried to find something in the html5 spec, but I'm having trouble 
deciphering

http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#table-model

Is there something more recent regarding how browsers should calculate 
the number of cells in a table?

-- 
Brian T


From ricardobeat at gmail.com  Mon Mar 21 16:10:00 2011
From: ricardobeat at gmail.com (Ricardo Tomasi)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:10:00 -0300
Subject: [html5] empty cells
In-Reply-To: <4D8678FB.2090107@tsmchughs.com>
References: <4D8678FB.2090107@tsmchughs.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimBMcTYg6voKawFvd8g0Ngk0RU8ZYkdzQKnBTmc@mail.gmail.com>

This must be the most semantic menu ever ;)

Have you tried setting the colspan attribute (colspan="3") on the <th>? You
must explicitly tell the cell to occupy the space where other 2 cells are
expected.

http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/tabular-data.html#attributes-common-to-td-and-th-elements

2011/3/20 webmaster <webmaster at tsmchughs.com>

> I'm seeing what I think is a bug in Safari with regard to empty cells in a
> table. I have a restaurant dinner menu marked up as a table:
>
> http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/dinner
>
> The first <tr> of each <tbody> element contains only a <th> element (thanks
> to hixie for the scope="rowgroup" suggestion a couple of weeks ago). Each
> subsequent <tr> has 3 cells: a <th> and two <td>s. My style sheet has a rule
> to place a border-bottom on tbody tr:first-child. In Firefox, the border
> extends across the table, but not in Safari.
>
> "Calculating the number of columns in a table" from the html 4 spec
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.4.3
> says "user agents should base the number of columns on what is required by
> the rows" when there is no <col> or <colgroup> elements.
>
> I actually tried inserting both <col> and <colgroup> elements, with no
> change. But if I explicitly add empty <td> elements, as in this menu
>
> http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/glutenfree
>
> then the border extends, even in Safari.
>
> I tried to find something in the html5 spec, but I'm having trouble
> deciphering
>
> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#table-model
>
> Is there something more recent regarding how browsers should calculate the
> number of cells in a table?
>
> --
> Brian T
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>
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From mario.jur at gmail.com  Tue Mar 22 12:47:27 2011
From: mario.jur at gmail.com (Mario Juric)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 20:47:27 +0100
Subject: [html5] Help with html 5 security
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=zw+w+NOppWcVzD6neJiufcOW3FqaHzN==1QMk@mail.gmail.com>

First of all I would like to point out I'm fairly new to the concept of html
in general.


To the point.


I'd like to ask if anyone has any information on html5 security and how it
varies from previous versions of html, given the fact it's a work in
progress it's bound to have some glitches. Some examples of website based
attack, methods for security testing and any kind of simple html5 security
tutorial would be appreciated

So I would appreciate any and all help, weather by advice or any kind of
literature, links etc.


Thanks

-- 
univ.bacc.ing.traff Mario Juri?

Zagreba?ka avenija 2
10000 Zagreb
GSM:091/940-7361
_____________________
Let us arise above mere life and conquer the world of our dreams...
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From jblist at me.com  Thu Mar 24 14:03:00 2011
From: jblist at me.com (jblist at me.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:03:00 -0700
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
Message-ID: <88C7037F-CCC3-4C71-A7E6-7B72F700C64B@me.com>

Hi folks,

I have a form with two submit buttons. Based on which submit button is clicked, I'd like to present different confirmations prior to allowing the submission to proceed. Originally, I just used the onclick attribute with a function that essentially called confirm(). Returning false would cancel the submission. Each button had its own click event handler and everything was working as expected.

However, in attempting to make sure my markup is correct, I passed my page through the validator which complained about the return value in the click event handler. The error message was a bit cryptic, but I'm assuming that click events are not supposed to be cancelable (even though the browsers let me do that).

To do the "right thing" I figured I need to hook my javascript into the submit event stream instead. However, how can I determine which submit button fired the submission? Is this encoded in the submit event? Is there some state in the button itself I can query from the event handler? What's wrong with returning false from the click event handler to stop the form submission?

Best regards,
Joe



From jblist at me.com  Thu Mar 24 14:25:36 2011
From: jblist at me.com (Joseph Oreste Bruni)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:25:36 -0700
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
In-Reply-To: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
References: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
Message-ID: <76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>

Sorry. Here is the html boiled down to a test case:


<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<title>Test</title>
</head>
<body>
<form>
<p><input type=submit onclick="return confirm('Allow?')"></p>
</form>
</body>
</html>


The error message is as follows:

Error: Bad value return confirm('Allow?') for attribute onclick on element input: invalid return
From line 8, column 4; to line 8, column 57
<form>?<p><input type=submit onclick="return confirm('Allow?')"></p>?<


Perhaps only the validator is invalid?




On Mar 24, 2011, at 2:15 PM, Randy Drielinger wrote:

> What was the exact error message? That helps :)
> 
> ------Original Message------
> From: jblist at me.com
> Sender: help-bounces at lists.whatwg.org
> To: help at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
> Sent: Mar 24, 2011 22:03
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I have a form with two submit buttons. Based on which submit button is clicked, I'd like to present different confirmations prior to allowing the submission to proceed. Originally, I just used the onclick attribute with a function that essentially called confirm(). Returning false would cancel the submission. Each button had its own click event handler and everything was working as expected.
> 
> However, in attempting to make sure my markup is correct, I passed my page through the validator which complained about the return value in the click event handler. The error message was a bit cryptic, but I'm assuming that click events are not supposed to be cancelable (even though the browsers let me do that).
> 
> To do the "right thing" I figured I need to hook my javascript into the submit event stream instead. However, how can I determine which submit button fired the submission? Is this encoded in the submit event? Is there some state in the button itself I can query from the event handler? What's wrong with returning false from the click event handler to stop the form submission?
> 
> Best regards,
> Joe
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
> 



From jblist at me.com  Thu Mar 24 16:07:09 2011
From: jblist at me.com (Joseph Oreste Bruni)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:07:09 -0700
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
In-Reply-To: <001401cbea71$0965c660$1c315320$@bc.ca>
References: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
	<76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>
	<001401cbea71$0965c660$1c315320$@bc.ca>
Message-ID: <99D8F84E-9E99-46EC-BD15-C8E7D5B3C578@me.com>

This does not answer my question. If onclick="foo()" is considered valid why is onclick="return foo()" not? You are suggesting that onclick="foo()" is not valid.



On Mar 24, 2011, at 3:15 PM, Walter Beardwood wrote:

> http://forum.jquery.com/topic/jquery-onclick-event-on-a-href-calls-a-function-where-to-return-false-to-prevent-redirection
> 
> "Inline JavaScript is generally frowned upon nowadays. A better approach, if you can do it, is to separate your behavior from your
> mark-up, ..."
> 
> ---
> 
> This might help.
> -WB
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: help-bounces at lists.whatwg.org [mailto:help-bounces at lists.whatwg.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Oreste Bruni
> Sent: March-24-11 2:26 PM
> To: help at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
> 
> Sorry. Here is the html boiled down to a test case:
> 
> 
> <!DOCTYPE html>
> <html>
> <head>
> <title>Test</title>
> </head>
> <body>
> <form>
> <p><input type=submit onclick="return confirm('Allow?')"></p>
> </form>
> </body>
> </html>
> 
> 
> The error message is as follows:
> 
> Error: Bad value return confirm('Allow?') for attribute onclick on element input: invalid return
> From line 8, column 4; to line 8, column 57
> <form>?<p><input type=submit onclick="return confirm('Allow?')"></p>?<
> 
> 
> Perhaps only the validator is invalid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 24, 2011, at 2:15 PM, Randy Drielinger wrote:
> 
>> What was the exact error message? That helps :)
>> 
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: jblist at me.com
>> Sender: help-bounces at lists.whatwg.org
>> To: help at lists.whatwg.org
>> Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
>> Sent: Mar 24, 2011 22:03
>> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> I have a form with two submit buttons. Based on which submit button is clicked, I'd like to present different confirmations prior to allowing the submission to proceed. Originally, I just used the onclick attribute with a function that essentially called confirm(). Returning false would cancel the submission. Each button had its own click event handler and everything was working as expected.
>> 
>> However, in attempting to make sure my markup is correct, I passed my page through the validator which complained about the return value in the click event handler. The error message was a bit cryptic, but I'm assuming that click events are not supposed to be cancelable (even though the browsers let me do that).
>> 
>> To do the "right thing" I figured I need to hook my javascript into the submit event stream instead. However, how can I determine which submit button fired the submission? Is this encoded in the submit event? Is there some state in the button itself I can query from the event handler? What's wrong with returning false from the click event handler to stop the form submission?
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Joe
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Help mailing list
>> Help at lists.whatwg.org
>> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> The College of New Caledonia
> Visit us at http://www.cnc.bc.ca
> Virus scanning is done on all incoming and outgoing email.
> Anti-spam information for CNC can be found at http://gateway.cnc.bc.ca
> -------------------------------------------------------------------



From jukka.k.korpela at kolumbus.fi  Thu Mar 24 22:22:31 2011
From: jukka.k.korpela at kolumbus.fi (Jukka K. Korpela)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 07:22:31 +0200
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
In-Reply-To: <76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>
References: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
	<76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>
Message-ID: <CC1218F625E5412BA5E3E39B6FC38A2F@JukanPC>

Joseph Oreste Bruni wrote:

> Error: Bad value return confirm('Allow?') for attribute onclick on
> element input:
[...]
> Perhaps only the validator is invalid?

This was a bug in the validator, first (?) reported in January:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-validator/2011Jan/0057.html

It seems that the bug has now been fixed. Your markup passes validation, and 
so do other cases that were previously flagged as invalid.

-- 
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ 



From jblist at me.com  Fri Mar 25 09:21:25 2011
From: jblist at me.com (Joseph Oreste Bruni)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:21:25 -0700
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
In-Reply-To: <CC1218F625E5412BA5E3E39B6FC38A2F@JukanPC>
References: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
	<76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>
	<CC1218F625E5412BA5E3E39B6FC38A2F@JukanPC>
Message-ID: <83116E89-4296-43BE-81AE-A553AD8EB0A5@me.com>


On Mar 24, 2011, at 10:22 PM, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

> Joseph Oreste Bruni wrote:
> 
>> Error: Bad value return confirm('Allow?') for attribute onclick on
>> element input:
> [...]
>> Perhaps only the validator is invalid?
> 
> This was a bug in the validator, first (?) reported in January:
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-validator/2011Jan/0057.html
> 
> It seems that the bug has now been fixed. Your markup passes validation, and so do other cases that were previously flagged as invalid.
> 
> -- 
> Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ 


Apparently I have been ambiguous about assuming the identity of "THE" validator. The one I was using still seems to have the error that was corrected previously. I was using the one located at http://html5.validator.nu/ not the one located at http://validator.w3.org/.

When I use the one at w3.org the code checks out.

Thanks for your answer!

-Joe



From ian at hixie.ch  Tue Mar  1 16:19:16 2011
From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 00:19:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [html5] validator.nu and empty table tr
In-Reply-To: <2127463467.462454.1291286102189.JavaMail.root@cm-mail03.mozilla.org>
References: <2127463467.462454.1291286102189.JavaMail.root@cm-mail03.mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103012330090.26730@ps20323.dreamhostps.com>

On Thu, 2 Dec 2010, Henri Sivonen wrote:
> Ian Hickson wrote:
> > On Tue, 30 Nov 2010, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Error: Row 1 of a row group established by a tbody element has no
> > > > cells beginning on it.
> > >
> > > Apparently validator.nu plays its own game, using existing HTML
> > > recommendations rather than HTML 5 drafts in this issue.
> > 
> > More likely it's just a bug.
> 
> The code in question mostly predates the spec and has been extrapolated 
> from this expression of Hixie's opinion at one point in time: 
> http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2006-October/007430.html

I don't see anything about empty rows there. :-)


> I thought the spec at least at some point banned empty rows. Am I 
> mistaken or has the spec changed?

I am not sure.


> Why aren't empty rows banned?

So that you can fill them in later, as in:

   <table>
    <caption>First three results</caption>
    <tfoot>
     <tr id="headers">
    <tbody
     <tr id="row1">
     <tr id="row2">
     <tr id="row3">
   </table>
   <script>
    // get results
    // fill in table
   </script>

Note though that as currently specified, the table _would_ be in error if 
any of the rows had a cell in it, since then there'd be rows consisting 
entirely of empty slots.

(It's possible that I misspoke in the original thread; I don't recall if 
the table had any cells in it. If it did, then the validator isn't wrong.)


> Not banning <ul></ul> makes sense, but once you have 
> <table><tr></tr></table>, you might as well require it to be 
> <table><tr><td></td></tr></table>, since this requirement isn't more 
> substantially more onerous to authoring tools but helps catch 
> unintentionally empty rows.

I don't really see why it would be different. I do agree tables make this 
a little more complex since they're two-dimensional.

The way I look at this is that the goal is trying to catch likely 
authoring errors. This:

   <table>
    <tr> <td>bla bla </tr>
    <tr> <td>bla bla blaa <tr> <!-- notice typo here -->
    <tr> <td>bla </tr>
   </table>

...is a likely error, whereas a table with no cells (even if it has 
tables) seems highly unlikely to be an error.

However, the best thing to do here would be to look at real data. Do you 
have logs for these kinds of errors? Are they common? Are they 
false-positives? Do we get many false-negatives? (Presumably the latter 
question would require additional instrumenting of the code.)

-- 
Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'


From diego.perini at gmail.com  Thu Mar  3 05:26:06 2011
From: diego.perini at gmail.com (Diego Perini)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 14:26:06 +0100
Subject: [html5] Event capture/bubbling question
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikLghYX-7viYLm3SQ6c+v4-_so17YGQvKRY9HGH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim-v54GRbK8rTyEkEOF77RQjvUrdqN+tMEtL3Sx@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikLghYX-7viYLm3SQ6c+v4-_so17YGQvKRY9HGH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimTykU7zmxJ3xcOs_Ej9e5KMTBAsdQ2UL9KSzJ1@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Berend-Jan Wever
<skylined at chromium.org> wrote:
> Hey all,
> I was experimenting with event capturing and bubbling when I noticed
> something odd: "capturing" event handlers are executed for the target of an
> event AFTER "bubbling" event handlers have been executed for that target.
> For example, if an event is fired on a "div" inside a "body", I see the
> following event listeners being fired in the same order in all mayor browser
> (Chrome, FF, MSIE (9 beta), Opera, Safari):
> 1) "capture" event listeners for the Document element
> 2) "capture" event listeners for the "html" element
> 3) "capture" event listeners for the "body" element
> 4) "bubble" ?event listeners for the "div" element
> 5) "capture" event listeners for the "div" element
> 6) "bubble" ?event listeners for the "body" element
> 7) "bubble" ?event listeners for the "html" element
> 8) "bubble" ?event listeners for the?Document?element
> This fifth entry is odd because:
> 1) I didn't expect to see "capturing" event listeners to get executed for
> the target at all.
> 2) I expected all "capturing" event handlers to be executed before any
> "bubbling" event listeners.
> Let me explain where these expectations come from by showing?how I interpret
> the spec
> at(http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-flow-capture):
> Section 1.2.1, paragraph 1:
>
> "Although all?EventListeners?on the?EventTarget?are guaranteed to be
> triggered by any event which is received by that?EventTarget, no
> specification is made as to the order in which they will receive the event
> with regards to the other?EventListeners?on the?EventTarget.?<snip>?If event
> capture or event bubbling is in use, the event flow will be modified as
> described in the sections below.".
>
> Section?1.2.2, paragraph 2:
>
> "when an event of the given type is dispatched toward a?descendant?of the
> capturing object, the event will trigger any capturing event listeners of
> the appropriate type which exist in the direct line between the top of the
> document and the event's target. This downward propagation continues until
> the event's target is reached.?A capturing?EventListener?will not be
> triggered by events dispatched directly to the?EventTarget?upon which it is
> registered."
>
> paragraph 3:
>
> "event capture only allows interception of events which are targeted
> at?descendants?of the capturing?EventTarget." and "event capture intercepts
> all events of the specified type targeted toward any of the
> capturer's?descendants.")."
>
> To me this means?"capture" event listeners are not executed for the target
> element.
> Section 1.2.2, paragraph 1.2.2:
>
> "If no additional capturers exist and?stopPropagation?has not been called,
> the event triggers the appropriate?EventListeners?on the target itself."
>
> This means?"bubbling" event listeners are executed for the target
> element?after the last "capturing" event listener has been executed.
> Here's how I interpret the spec step-by-step:
> 1) Create a list of all nodes from the target "upwards" through its parents
> towards the Document element. This list is not modified even if elements are
> removed or added while executing the next steps.
> == Capturing phase ==
> 2)?Set the current element to?the "topmost"?element at of the list.
> 3) Fire all "capture" event listeners for the current element (in any
> order).
> 4) If?"stopPropagation()" has been called go to step 12.
> 5) Set the current element to the next element?"down"?in the list.
> 6) If the current element is not the target element go to step 3.
> == Bubbling phase ==
> 7) Fire all "bubbling" event listeners for the current element (in any
> order).
> 8)?If?"stopPropagation()" has been called stop executing these steps.
> 9) If the current element is the Document element at the "top" of the list
> stop?executing these steps.
> 10)?Set the current element to the next element?"up"?in the list.
> 11) Go to step 7
> == Default behavior phase ==
> 12) if "preventDefault()" has been called, stop executing these steps
> 13) Execute the default browser behavior for the event and the target, such
> as opening a link when clicking on it.
> I've attached a test case that I used to find out about this. They way I see
> it, there are a few options:
> - I am interpreting the output of my test wrong,
> - The test has a bug that causes it to display the event order incorrectly,
> - The spec is not clear on this subject and I am interpreting it
> incorrectly,
> - The spec is incorrect,
> - All mayor browser have implemented "capturing" incorrectly.
> Let me know if you have any idea what is going on!
> Cheers,
> SkyLined
>
> Berend-Jan Wever (SkyLined at google.com) | Security Software Engineer
> Google Netherlands B.V. | Reg: Claude Debussylaan 34, 15th floor 1082 MD
> Amsterdam
> 34198589 | NETHERLANDS | VAT / Tax ID:- 812788515 B01
>
>
> Berend-Jan Wever (SkyLined at google.com) | Security Software Engineer
> Google Netherlands B.V. | Reg: Claude Debussylaan 34, 15th floor 1082 MD
> Amsterdam
> 34198589 | NETHERLANDS | VAT / Tax ID:- 812788515 B01
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>
>

Sorry for the delayed response to this ... I had marked this as
interesting to review the code but then had no time.

It seems that changing the order in which the capturing / bubbling
handlers are registered yields the expected results.

So in your code moving the registration of the bubbling handler after
that of the capturing handler gives a different order on the target (I
believe that is what you expected to be logged).

This means that the registration order on the target is also an
important part of the algorithm in current implementations (tested on
FF 3.6.14 / Safari 5.0.3 / Chrome 11 / Opera 11). I can't point you to
the exact point in the specification but since all newer browsers
behaves the same I believe they are following some of the rules
outlined there.

--
Diego


From ian at hixie.ch  Fri Mar  4 16:16:58 2011
From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 00:16:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [html5] sections and tables
In-Reply-To: <4D029B91.9030105@tsmchughs.com>
References: <4CFD8F32.5040802@tsmchughs.com>
	<AANLkTi=JYGhCd2RcBx9DnrDiBXaBd2U5iTFEpBc6r2DU@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D029B91.9030105@tsmchughs.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103050010280.26730@ps20323.dreamhostps.com>

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010, webmaster wrote:
> On 12/7/10 3:07 PM, Ricardo Tomasi wrote:
> > 
> > 2010/12/6 webmaster <webmaster at tsmchughs.com
> > <mailto:webmaster at tsmchughs.com>>
> > 
> > > <table>s cannot contain <section>s, and <tbody> does not participate
> > > in the document outline. So if I have a <table>, am I stuck using
> > > <h2> or <h3> or...? Is there anyway to use <h1> as I do in sections
> > > and have the outline work correctly?
> > 
> > In my understanding, nothing inside a table should need to appear in
> > the outline. Tables are for tabular data
> 
> Consider this table:
> 
> http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/dinner
> 
> It's tabular data. Each <tbody> represents a different section of the 
> table. Each has a subheading <h2>. In other pages of this site, as I 
> update them to html5, I've been replacing <h2> with <h1> and putting the 
> heading and its related content inside a <section> element. But I cannot 
> do that with this (or with other, similar, tables). Any suggestions?

<table>
 <tbody>
  <tr>
   <th scope="rowgroup">appetizers
  ...
  <tr>
   <th scope="row">Lobster Bisque
   <td>chopped Maine lobster...
   <td>$8
  ...
 <tbody>
  <tr>
   <th scope="rowgroup">sides
  ...

etc.

No need for sections, just treat it as one big table. Table headers can be 
given the semantics to make this work quite easily.

-- 
Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'


From dadasden at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 05:23:23 2011
From: dadasden at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?4pml4pmlw4TOvc65zrfOsdGV0L3imaXimaU=?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 18:53:23 +0530
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
Message-ID: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>

Respected Sir,
I am very new to HTML...
I want to learn HTML from scratch to advanced HTML5..

So cn you please suggest me some sites and books or
other web resources for COMPLETE study material of HTML n other web
technologies...
Please help...

Thanking you in advance...

Avinash Sonawane
Pune Institute Of Computer Technology
2nd Year Engg.
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From mohu.mca at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 17:24:48 2011
From: mohu.mca at gmail.com (Mohanavel Ponnusamy)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 20:24:48 -0500
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>

Hi,
	You can check with w3schools site for beginners.

http://www.w3schools.com/
Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later you can get into lot of other tutorials.

Mohanavel Ponnusamy
mohu.mca at gmail.com
Challenges? It is the cross that I have to bear. So, enjoy every moment!!!


On Mar 11, 2011, at 8:23 AM, ??????????? wrote:

> Respected Sir,
> I am very new to HTML...
> I want to learn HTML from scratch to advanced HTML5..
> 
> So cn you please suggest me some sites and books or 
> other web resources for COMPLETE study material of HTML n other web technologies...
> Please help...
> 
> Thanking you in advance...
> 
> Avinash Sonawane
> Pune Institute Of Computer Technology
> 2nd Year Engg.
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org

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From mitch at niftyegg.com  Fri Mar 11 17:41:51 2011
From: mitch at niftyegg.com (Tom Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 17:41:51 -0800
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
	<D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinsUqVjZvX9rXxBCzWH-Xo9pt1WzY7pHi+oCX2c@mail.gmail.com>

Yes
and do not forget "view source" in many browsers.
Some of the 'famous' sites can be difficult to read
but for the vast majority the html  source is visible and sometimes well
commented.  This "view source" may be the single
most important reason for the explosive growth of the
web.


2011/3/11 Mohanavel Ponnusamy <mohu.mca at gmail.com>:
> Hi,
> You can check with w3schools site for beginners.
> http://www.w3schools.com/
> Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later
> you can get into lot of other tutorials.
.....
>
> On Mar 11, 2011, at 8:23 AM, ??????????? wrote:
>
> Respected Sir,
> I am very new to HTML...
> I want to learn HTML from scratch to advanced HTML5..
>
> So cn you please suggest me some sites and books or
> other web resources for COMPLETE study material of HTML n other web
> technologies...
> Please help...
>
> Thanking you in advance...
>
> Avinash Sonawane
> Pune Institute Of Computer Technology
> 2nd Year Engg.
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>
>



-- 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? T o m?? M i t c h e l l
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? mitch-at-niftyegg-dot-com
"My lifetime goal is to be the kind of person my dogs think I am."


From ott at mirix.org  Fri Mar 11 18:31:56 2011
From: ott at mirix.org (Matthias-Christian Ott)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 03:31:56 +0100
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
	<D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110312023156.GA6850@qp>


On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 08:24:48PM -0500, Mohanavel Ponnusamy wrote:
> Hi,
> 	You can check with w3schools site for beginners.
> 
> http://www.w3schools.com/
> Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later you can get into lot of other tutorials.

W3Schools received justified criticism lately, see http://w3fools.com/.

Regards,
Matthias-Christian


From mohu.mca at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 18:50:19 2011
From: mohu.mca at gmail.com (Mohanavel Ponnusamy)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 21:50:19 -0500
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <20110312023156.GA6850@qp>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>
	<D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>
	<20110312023156.GA6850@qp>
Message-ID: <451B816E-7D67-46CA-943A-FB6C1EEB4658@gmail.com>

Thanks for the pointer. Anyways, we did not intend to use W3S for reference. It is just for a beginner. But in the list, 

http://htmldog.com/ 

Seems to be good for a beginner. 
Coz, with slower web connectivity, watching a video tutorial will keep buffering.

Mohanavel Ponnusamy
mohu.mca at gmail.com
Challenges? It is the cross that I have to bear. So, enjoy every moment!!!


On Mar 11, 2011, at 9:31 PM, Matthias-Christian Ott wrote:

> 
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 08:24:48PM -0500, Mohanavel Ponnusamy wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 	You can check with w3schools site for beginners.
>> 
>> http://www.w3schools.com/
>> Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later you can get into lot of other tutorials.
> 
> W3Schools received justified criticism lately, see http://w3fools.com/.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias-Christian

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From mgainty at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 11 18:57:34 2011
From: mgainty at hotmail.com (Martin Gainty)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 21:57:34 -0500
Subject: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
In-Reply-To: <20110312023156.GA6850@qp>
References: <AANLkTimjSFV1w19UwhGUxy_RHbe0bWS+T2UWYj5qVLMn@mail.gmail.com>,
	<D80AEDD2-8758-4DAF-B931-B30036939572@gmail.com>,
	<20110312023156.GA6850@qp>
Message-ID: <BLU142-W1133BD1DA1ED85D61AE505AECA0@phx.gbl>


Matthias-

I personally would like to see a more complete discussion of AJAX
all of the implementations i have seen thus far involve some variant of XMLHttpRequest refactoring

some web2.0 folk are getting excited about JQuery because it wraps XMLHttpRequest object with Ajax.Request 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMLHttpRequest

this is an unfortunate sticking point with recruiters who transpose conversational focus onto Ajax without
any mention of XMLHttpRequest to implement the request and a asynchronous return of XML DOM

Danke/Merci
Martin Gainty 
______________________________________________ 
Verzicht und Vertraulichkeitanmerkung/Note de d?ni et de confidentialit?
 
Diese Nachricht ist vertraulich. Sollten Sie nicht der vorgesehene Empfaenger sein, so bitten wir hoeflich um eine Mitteilung. Jede unbefugte Weiterleitung oder Fertigung einer Kopie ist unzulaessig. Diese Nachricht dient lediglich dem Austausch von Informationen und entfaltet keine rechtliche Bindungswirkung. Aufgrund der leichten Manipulierbarkeit von E-Mails koennen wir keine Haftung fuer den Inhalt uebernehmen.
Ce message est confidentiel et peut ?tre privil?gi?. Si vous n'?tes pas le destinataire pr?vu, nous te demandons avec bont? que pour satisfaire informez l'exp?diteur. N'importe quelle diffusion non autoris?e ou la copie de ceci est interdite. Ce message sert ? l'information seulement et n'aura pas n'importe quel effet l?galement obligatoire. ?tant donn? que les email peuvent facilement ?tre sujets ? la manipulation, nous ne pouvons accepter aucune responsabilit? pour le contenu fourni.




> Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 03:31:56 +0100
> From: ott at mirix.org
> To: mohu.mca at gmail.com
> CC: help at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [html5] First Encounter with HTML
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 08:24:48PM -0500, Mohanavel Ponnusamy wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 	You can check with w3schools site for beginners.
> > 
> > http://www.w3schools.com/
> > Later on, you can get into html5 introduction in same w3schools and later you can get into lot of other tutorials.
> 
> W3Schools received justified criticism lately, see http://w3fools.com/.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias-Christian
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
 		 	   		  
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From admin at blueboden.com  Fri Mar 18 20:01:24 2011
From: admin at blueboden.com (Jacob Kristensen)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 04:01:24 +0100
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
Message-ID: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>

Any reason why border-radius doesn't work on article elements?

I tested this earlier today, and i can't seem to get it to work in IE9. On top of that, i actually expected it would work in Firefox, using -moz-border-radius, but it didn't.
I tried the exact same code on a div element, and this worked fine.

There also seem to be a bug, where the second value gets applied a bit odd, also in both browsers.

As i understand border-radius, the first value should represent the radius of the horizontal plane, while the second value should represent the vertical plane radius.
This should then allow web designers to sort of "squeeze" the bend of the corners. But what this in reality seem to do, is to apply two different values like below:

-X--Y-
-Y--X-

This can be seen in the example that i posted on Brugbart, http://brugbart.com/Visions/css-border-radius

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From malterisio777 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 18 21:27:34 2011
From: malterisio777 at gmail.com (Martin Alterisio)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 01:27:34 -0300
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
In-Reply-To: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
References: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
Message-ID: <AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Jacob Kristensen <admin at blueboden.com>wrote:

>  Any reason why border-radius doesn't work on article elements?
>
> I tested this earlier today, and i can't seem to get it to work in IE9. On
> top of that, i actually expected it would work in Firefox, using
> -moz-border-radius, but it didn't.
> I tried the exact same code on a div element, and this worked fine.
>

border-radius is not HTML5, is CSS3, and it works just fine in HTML5 new
elements (just remember to use display:block where appropiate, some browsers
have no default styling for those new elements), you must be using it wrong.


> There also seem to be a bug, where the second value gets applied a bit odd,
> also in both browsers.
>
> As i understand border-radius, the first value should represent the radius
> of the horizontal plane, while the second value should represent the
> vertical plane radius.
> This should then allow web designers to sort of "squeeze" the bend of the
> corners. But what this in reality seem to do, is to apply two different
> values like below:
>
> -X--Y-
> -Y--X-
>
> This can be seen in the example that i posted on Brugbart,
> http://brugbart.com/Visions/css-border-radius
>

That's the expected behavior, not a bug.

http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/#the-border-radius

border-radius: <value for all corners>;
border-radius: <value for top-left and bottom-right> <value for top-right
and bottom-left>;
border-radius: <value for top-left> <value for top-right and bottom-left>
<value for bottom-right>;
border-radius: <value for top-left> <value for top-right> <value for
bottom-right> <value for bottom-left>;

If you want to have different radius for the x axis and y axis you have to
specify first the values for the x-axis then the values for the y-axis
separated by a / character, for example:

border-radius: 5px 10px;
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From william at techservsys.com  Sat Mar 19 07:33:19 2011
From: william at techservsys.com (bill)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:33:19 -0400
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
	<AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D84BEAF.10804@TechServSys.com>

On 3/19/2011 12:27 AM, Martin Alterisio wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Jacob Kristensen 
> <admin at blueboden.com <mailto:admin at blueboden.com>> wrote:
>
>     Any reason why border-radius doesn't work on article elements?
>     I tested this earlier today, and i can't seem to get it to
>     work in IE9. On top of that, i actually expected it would
>     work in Firefox, using -moz-border-radius, but it didn't.
>     I tried the exact same code on a div element, and this
>     worked fine.
>
>
> border-radius is not HTML5, is CSS3, and it works just fine in 
> HTML5 new elements (just remember to use display:block where 
> appropiate, some browsers have no default styling for those new 
> elements), you must be using it wrong.
>
>     There also seem to be a bug, where the second value gets
>     applied a bit odd, also in both browsers.
>     As i understand border-radius, the first value should
>     represent the radius of the horizontal plane, while the
>     second value should represent the vertical plane radius.
>     This should then allow web designers to sort of "squeeze"
>     the bend of the corners. But what this in reality seem to
>     do, is to apply two different values like below:
>     -X--Y-
>     -Y--X-
>     This can be seen in the example that i posted on Brugbart,
>     http://brugbart.com/Visions/css-border-radius
>
>
> That's the expected behavior, not a bug.
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/#the-border-radius
>
> border-radius: <value for all corners>;
> border-radius: <value for top-left and bottom-right> <value for 
> top-right and bottom-left>;
> border-radius: <value for top-left> <value for top-right and 
> bottom-left> <value for bottom-right>;
> border-radius: <value for top-left> <value for top-right> 
> <value for bottom-right> <value for bottom-left>;
>
> If you want to have different radius for the x axis and y axis 
> you have to specify first the values for the x-axis then the 
> values for the y-axis separated by a / character, for example:
>
> border-radius: 5px 10px;
>
Works as expected for the <article> on FireFox 3.6.15

-- 
Bill Drescher
william {at} TechServSys {dot} com

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From jukka.k.korpela at kolumbus.fi  Sat Mar 19 08:14:20 2011
From: jukka.k.korpela at kolumbus.fi (Jukka K. Korpela)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 17:14:20 +0200
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
	<AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D1FB9D1B4E34045AE1DD517959ABC90@JukanPC>

Martin Alterisio wrote:

>> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Jacob Kristensen
>> <admin at blueboden.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  Any reason why border-radius doesn't work on article elements?
>>>
>>> I tested this earlier today, and i can't seem to get it to work in
>>> IE9. On top of that, i actually expected it would work in Firefox,
>>> using -moz-border-radius, but it didn't.
>>> I tried the exact same code on a div element, and this worked fine.
>>
>> border-radius is not HTML5, is CSS3,

Well, the scope of HTML5 is not crystal clear, and CSS3 might be included in 
some people's opinion, but other lists (like css-discuss) are more suitable 
for discussing CSS issues, as a rule.

>> and it works just fine in HTML5 new elements

On browsers that recognize the new elements, yes, I guess.

>> (just remember to use display:block where appropiate,
>> some browsers have no default styling for those new elements), you
>> must be using it wrong.

According to the current HTML5 drafts, the article element is "expected" to 
have display: block as the default.

For IE 8 and earlier, you need to set the display property for article, but 
this alone doesn't help, since those browsers don't recognize the article 
element at all, even in the sense of applying CSS rules to it. You need to 
"teach" it to them using Javascript code like
document.createElement("article");
This won't make the borders rounded on those browsers, as they don't support 
border-radius, but at least they will honor your normal CSS settings like 
display: block, border settings in general, etc.

-- 
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ 



From admin at blueboden.com  Sat Mar 19 18:25:07 2011
From: admin at blueboden.com (Jacob Kristensen)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 02:25:07 +0100
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
In-Reply-To: <4D84BEAF.10804@TechServSys.com>
References: <C52F91073E3C42AD8BB6CF09E1D89959@B1>
	<AANLkTina2zFW0fKf4rpcEUkoeXFSUfizEU1VMpJMyi_M@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D84BEAF.10804@TechServSys.com>
Message-ID: <267FAF4088E24EBF98AE9DC1C36C9742@B1>

Thanks everyone. I don't know what went wrong the first time, perhaps IE9 tried to render my example in compatibility mode.

In any case, it appears to be working now. Can't wait to try out box-shadow with hardware rendering, hopefully that will eliminate my lag when resizing the browser.


Jacob Kristensen
http://blueboden.com/
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From zambo_gergo at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 20 03:13:44 2011
From: zambo_gergo at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-2?B?WuFtYvMgR2VyZ/U=?=)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 11:13:44 +0100
Subject: [html5] CSS Border-radius and New Elements
Message-ID: <DUB102-w167662A8B211735FA2C8CB93B20@phx.gbl>


Hi There,

This thing tricked me as well. The reason for this is that article is treated as inline while in normal cases article should be a block level element.All you need to do is to declare article as block in your CSS.
For IE Remy Sharp made a nice little Javascript file that makes styling possible in IE as well:
http://remysharp.com/2009/01/07/html5-enabling-script/
There you go. I hope this helps.

Greg 		 	   		  
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From webmaster at tsmchughs.com  Sun Mar 20 15:00:27 2011
From: webmaster at tsmchughs.com (webmaster)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 15:00:27 -0700
Subject: [html5] empty cells
Message-ID: <4D8678FB.2090107@tsmchughs.com>

I'm seeing what I think is a bug in Safari with regard to empty cells in 
a table. I have a restaurant dinner menu marked up as a table:

http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/dinner

The first <tr> of each <tbody> element contains only a <th> element 
(thanks to hixie for the scope="rowgroup" suggestion a couple of weeks 
ago). Each subsequent <tr> has 3 cells: a <th> and two <td>s. My style 
sheet has a rule to place a border-bottom on tbody tr:first-child. In 
Firefox, the border extends across the table, but not in Safari.

"Calculating the number of columns in a table" from the html 4 spec
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.4.3
says "user agents should base the number of columns on what is required 
by the rows" when there is no <col> or <colgroup> elements.

I actually tried inserting both <col> and <colgroup> elements, with no 
change. But if I explicitly add empty <td> elements, as in this menu

http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/glutenfree

then the border extends, even in Safari.

I tried to find something in the html5 spec, but I'm having trouble 
deciphering

http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#table-model

Is there something more recent regarding how browsers should calculate 
the number of cells in a table?

-- 
Brian T


From ricardobeat at gmail.com  Mon Mar 21 16:10:00 2011
From: ricardobeat at gmail.com (Ricardo Tomasi)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:10:00 -0300
Subject: [html5] empty cells
In-Reply-To: <4D8678FB.2090107@tsmchughs.com>
References: <4D8678FB.2090107@tsmchughs.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimBMcTYg6voKawFvd8g0Ngk0RU8ZYkdzQKnBTmc@mail.gmail.com>

This must be the most semantic menu ever ;)

Have you tried setting the colspan attribute (colspan="3") on the <th>? You
must explicitly tell the cell to occupy the space where other 2 cells are
expected.

http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/tabular-data.html#attributes-common-to-td-and-th-elements

2011/3/20 webmaster <webmaster at tsmchughs.com>

> I'm seeing what I think is a bug in Safari with regard to empty cells in a
> table. I have a restaurant dinner menu marked up as a table:
>
> http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/dinner
>
> The first <tr> of each <tbody> element contains only a <th> element (thanks
> to hixie for the scope="rowgroup" suggestion a couple of weeks ago). Each
> subsequent <tr> has 3 cells: a <th> and two <td>s. My style sheet has a rule
> to place a border-bottom on tbody tr:first-child. In Firefox, the border
> extends across the table, but not in Safari.
>
> "Calculating the number of columns in a table" from the html 4 spec
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.4.3
> says "user agents should base the number of columns on what is required by
> the rows" when there is no <col> or <colgroup> elements.
>
> I actually tried inserting both <col> and <colgroup> elements, with no
> change. But if I explicitly add empty <td> elements, as in this menu
>
> http://www.tenmercer.com/menu/glutenfree
>
> then the border extends, even in Safari.
>
> I tried to find something in the html5 spec, but I'm having trouble
> deciphering
>
> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#table-model
>
> Is there something more recent regarding how browsers should calculate the
> number of cells in a table?
>
> --
> Brian T
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>
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From mario.jur at gmail.com  Tue Mar 22 12:47:27 2011
From: mario.jur at gmail.com (Mario Juric)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 20:47:27 +0100
Subject: [html5] Help with html 5 security
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=zw+w+NOppWcVzD6neJiufcOW3FqaHzN==1QMk@mail.gmail.com>

First of all I would like to point out I'm fairly new to the concept of html
in general.


To the point.


I'd like to ask if anyone has any information on html5 security and how it
varies from previous versions of html, given the fact it's a work in
progress it's bound to have some glitches. Some examples of website based
attack, methods for security testing and any kind of simple html5 security
tutorial would be appreciated

So I would appreciate any and all help, weather by advice or any kind of
literature, links etc.


Thanks

-- 
univ.bacc.ing.traff Mario Juri?

Zagreba?ka avenija 2
10000 Zagreb
GSM:091/940-7361
_____________________
Let us arise above mere life and conquer the world of our dreams...
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From jblist at me.com  Thu Mar 24 14:03:00 2011
From: jblist at me.com (jblist at me.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:03:00 -0700
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
Message-ID: <88C7037F-CCC3-4C71-A7E6-7B72F700C64B@me.com>

Hi folks,

I have a form with two submit buttons. Based on which submit button is clicked, I'd like to present different confirmations prior to allowing the submission to proceed. Originally, I just used the onclick attribute with a function that essentially called confirm(). Returning false would cancel the submission. Each button had its own click event handler and everything was working as expected.

However, in attempting to make sure my markup is correct, I passed my page through the validator which complained about the return value in the click event handler. The error message was a bit cryptic, but I'm assuming that click events are not supposed to be cancelable (even though the browsers let me do that).

To do the "right thing" I figured I need to hook my javascript into the submit event stream instead. However, how can I determine which submit button fired the submission? Is this encoded in the submit event? Is there some state in the button itself I can query from the event handler? What's wrong with returning false from the click event handler to stop the form submission?

Best regards,
Joe



From jblist at me.com  Thu Mar 24 14:25:36 2011
From: jblist at me.com (Joseph Oreste Bruni)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:25:36 -0700
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
In-Reply-To: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
References: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
Message-ID: <76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>

Sorry. Here is the html boiled down to a test case:


<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<title>Test</title>
</head>
<body>
<form>
<p><input type=submit onclick="return confirm('Allow?')"></p>
</form>
</body>
</html>


The error message is as follows:

Error: Bad value return confirm('Allow?') for attribute onclick on element input: invalid return
From line 8, column 4; to line 8, column 57
<form>?<p><input type=submit onclick="return confirm('Allow?')"></p>?<


Perhaps only the validator is invalid?




On Mar 24, 2011, at 2:15 PM, Randy Drielinger wrote:

> What was the exact error message? That helps :)
> 
> ------Original Message------
> From: jblist at me.com
> Sender: help-bounces at lists.whatwg.org
> To: help at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
> Sent: Mar 24, 2011 22:03
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I have a form with two submit buttons. Based on which submit button is clicked, I'd like to present different confirmations prior to allowing the submission to proceed. Originally, I just used the onclick attribute with a function that essentially called confirm(). Returning false would cancel the submission. Each button had its own click event handler and everything was working as expected.
> 
> However, in attempting to make sure my markup is correct, I passed my page through the validator which complained about the return value in the click event handler. The error message was a bit cryptic, but I'm assuming that click events are not supposed to be cancelable (even though the browsers let me do that).
> 
> To do the "right thing" I figured I need to hook my javascript into the submit event stream instead. However, how can I determine which submit button fired the submission? Is this encoded in the submit event? Is there some state in the button itself I can query from the event handler? What's wrong with returning false from the click event handler to stop the form submission?
> 
> Best regards,
> Joe
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
> 



From jblist at me.com  Thu Mar 24 16:07:09 2011
From: jblist at me.com (Joseph Oreste Bruni)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:07:09 -0700
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
In-Reply-To: <001401cbea71$0965c660$1c315320$@bc.ca>
References: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
	<76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>
	<001401cbea71$0965c660$1c315320$@bc.ca>
Message-ID: <99D8F84E-9E99-46EC-BD15-C8E7D5B3C578@me.com>

This does not answer my question. If onclick="foo()" is considered valid why is onclick="return foo()" not? You are suggesting that onclick="foo()" is not valid.



On Mar 24, 2011, at 3:15 PM, Walter Beardwood wrote:

> http://forum.jquery.com/topic/jquery-onclick-event-on-a-href-calls-a-function-where-to-return-false-to-prevent-redirection
> 
> "Inline JavaScript is generally frowned upon nowadays. A better approach, if you can do it, is to separate your behavior from your
> mark-up, ..."
> 
> ---
> 
> This might help.
> -WB
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: help-bounces at lists.whatwg.org [mailto:help-bounces at lists.whatwg.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Oreste Bruni
> Sent: March-24-11 2:26 PM
> To: help at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
> 
> Sorry. Here is the html boiled down to a test case:
> 
> 
> <!DOCTYPE html>
> <html>
> <head>
> <title>Test</title>
> </head>
> <body>
> <form>
> <p><input type=submit onclick="return confirm('Allow?')"></p>
> </form>
> </body>
> </html>
> 
> 
> The error message is as follows:
> 
> Error: Bad value return confirm('Allow?') for attribute onclick on element input: invalid return
> From line 8, column 4; to line 8, column 57
> <form>?<p><input type=submit onclick="return confirm('Allow?')"></p>?<
> 
> 
> Perhaps only the validator is invalid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 24, 2011, at 2:15 PM, Randy Drielinger wrote:
> 
>> What was the exact error message? That helps :)
>> 
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: jblist at me.com
>> Sender: help-bounces at lists.whatwg.org
>> To: help at lists.whatwg.org
>> Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
>> Sent: Mar 24, 2011 22:03
>> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> I have a form with two submit buttons. Based on which submit button is clicked, I'd like to present different confirmations prior to allowing the submission to proceed. Originally, I just used the onclick attribute with a function that essentially called confirm(). Returning false would cancel the submission. Each button had its own click event handler and everything was working as expected.
>> 
>> However, in attempting to make sure my markup is correct, I passed my page through the validator which complained about the return value in the click event handler. The error message was a bit cryptic, but I'm assuming that click events are not supposed to be cancelable (even though the browsers let me do that).
>> 
>> To do the "right thing" I figured I need to hook my javascript into the submit event stream instead. However, how can I determine which submit button fired the submission? Is this encoded in the submit event? Is there some state in the button itself I can query from the event handler? What's wrong with returning false from the click event handler to stop the form submission?
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Joe
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Help mailing list
>> Help at lists.whatwg.org
>> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Help mailing list
> Help at lists.whatwg.org
> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> The College of New Caledonia
> Visit us at http://www.cnc.bc.ca
> Virus scanning is done on all incoming and outgoing email.
> Anti-spam information for CNC can be found at http://gateway.cnc.bc.ca
> -------------------------------------------------------------------



From jukka.k.korpela at kolumbus.fi  Thu Mar 24 22:22:31 2011
From: jukka.k.korpela at kolumbus.fi (Jukka K. Korpela)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 07:22:31 +0200
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
In-Reply-To: <76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>
References: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
	<76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>
Message-ID: <CC1218F625E5412BA5E3E39B6FC38A2F@JukanPC>

Joseph Oreste Bruni wrote:

> Error: Bad value return confirm('Allow?') for attribute onclick on
> element input:
[...]
> Perhaps only the validator is invalid?

This was a bug in the validator, first (?) reported in January:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-validator/2011Jan/0057.html

It seems that the bug has now been fixed. Your markup passes validation, and 
so do other cases that were previously flagged as invalid.

-- 
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ 



From jblist at me.com  Fri Mar 25 09:21:25 2011
From: jblist at me.com (Joseph Oreste Bruni)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:21:25 -0700
Subject: [html5] onclick vs. onsubmit
In-Reply-To: <CC1218F625E5412BA5E3E39B6FC38A2F@JukanPC>
References: <1769095026-1301001331-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-706135998-@b3.c10.bise7.blackberry>
	<76F0FCB5-8E0B-4D49-AE8D-BA64CE261CD7@me.com>
	<CC1218F625E5412BA5E3E39B6FC38A2F@JukanPC>
Message-ID: <83116E89-4296-43BE-81AE-A553AD8EB0A5@me.com>


On Mar 24, 2011, at 10:22 PM, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

> Joseph Oreste Bruni wrote:
> 
>> Error: Bad value return confirm('Allow?') for attribute onclick on
>> element input:
> [...]
>> Perhaps only the validator is invalid?
> 
> This was a bug in the validator, first (?) reported in January:
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-validator/2011Jan/0057.html
> 
> It seems that the bug has now been fixed. Your markup passes validation, and so do other cases that were previously flagged as invalid.
> 
> -- 
> Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ 


Apparently I have been ambiguous about assuming the identity of "THE" validator. The one I was using still seems to have the error that was corrected previously. I was using the one located at http://html5.validator.nu/ not the one located at http://validator.w3.org/.

When I use the one at w3.org the code checks out.

Thanks for your answer!

-Joe