From ian at hixie.ch Sat Aug 1 01:40:12 2009 From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 08:40:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [whatwg] Audio synthesis In-Reply-To: References: <4A4D6405.6040409@jumis.com> <4A529EF3.6010702@jumis.com> <7BDABBC0-3442-4A62-AAD5-CB83BD45B3ED@apple.com> <11e306600907211118u769ada76j1096bb067c24d37c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jul 2009, Patrick Mueller wrote: > > I've just started playing a bit with audio. One thing I noticed with > both FF 3.5 and WebKit nightlies is that usage of the "loop" attribute > set to true does not provide seamless looping. ie, there is a > significant pause between when the audio clip end is reached and when > the clip starts again. > > The spec makes no statement on the seamless-ness of the looping. > > From a practical standpoint though, having seamless looping is important > if you actually have audio that is designed to loop, and you'd like to > just allocate the resource for one loop. Think of the background sound > for a game, for instance. It also makes the trick of using a very short > sound clip specified in a data: url pretty much worthless, as you'd > presumably want to loop such a clip seamlessly. > > It makes me wonder what the use of having the seamful looping actually > is, besides of course annoying people. :-) I agree that looping should be seamless, but really we can't even guarantee that the start of the clip will still be in RAM when you reach the end, so this is more a quality-of-implementation issue than a spec issue. On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, Philip J?genstedt wrote: > > The spec simply says "If the media element has a loop attribute > specified, then seek to the earliest possible position of the media > resource and abort these steps." This would give seamless looping if an > implementation makes an effort to make it so. I certainly don't think > there should be an option to have seamless looping or not, each > implementation will simply have to do its best. Indeed. On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, Anne van Kesteren wrote: > > Unless memory fails me badly, the sole reason we have a looping API at > all is for seamless looping. (Otherwise you'd simply listen for the > ended event and invoke play() when it is dispatched.) Also true. -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' From ian at hixie.ch Sat Aug 1 01:59:52 2009 From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 08:59:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [whatwg] Canvas.toDataURL() browser implementations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, OmegaJunior wrote: > > Since the last implementation report for the Canvas element in HTML5 > was updated last February, I thought it wise to report that: > > The Canvas.toDataURL() method was found implemented by the following browsers: > Opera 10 beta 2 (including support for image/png and image/jpeg) > Google Chrome 3.0 (support for required image/png, no support for > optional image/jpeg) > Mozilla Firefox 3.5 (including support for image/png and image/jpeg) > > The Canvas.toDataURL() method isn't implemented by Microsoft Internet > Explorer 8. Thanks. For what it's worth, you are in fact able to update the implementation report yourself. :-) -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' From ian at hixie.ch Sat Aug 1 02:54:53 2009 From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 09:54:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [whatwg] Idea: Links w/o end anchors (is possible) In-Reply-To: <4A6741E6.2040603@mit.edu> References: <20090722103836.GA5128@concept67.net> <20090722105032.GR28818@chaosreigns.com> <20090722120246.GA5210@concept67.net> <4A6730CA.9020308@gmx.de> <4A6741E6.2040603@mit.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, ppj wrote: > > The Goal: Links w/o anchors. > The Strategy: Two stage process. > 1) get an extra 'search' attribute on to the tag in HTML so that we > have: > e.g. link text This is already possible using XPointer. > 2) If there's take-up, then later on push for adding a date-time of > creation attribute to . This will add link history to the internet. This doesn't seem to be necessary to solve the problem you stated. On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 Darxus at ChaosReigns.com wrote: > > It seems odd to me that the definition of the id attribute doesn't > mention its use as a fragment identifier. > http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/dom.html#the-id-attribute I've added a paragraph mentioning the uses of the id="" attribute. On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, ppj wrote: > > Folks have suggested XPointer vs. attribute hack on the element. But > I would prefer the element to have something superficial ordinary people > can understand, even if behind the scenes the browser turns that into > XPointer. I'm not convinced that the syntax of XPointer is preventing authors from using it. I think the lack of implementations, or the lack of desire to use the feature, are more likely problems. > What's the present rate of user uptake of XPointer? XPointer has not seen much success in getting browsers to implement it, unfortunately, and the only implementation I know of (Gecko for XML documents) isn't used much. I encourage you to look at this FAQ entry: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/FAQ#Is_there_a_process_for_adding_new_features_to_the_spec.3F ...for advice on how to bring this feature forward. -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' From ian at hixie.ch Sat Aug 1 03:18:31 2009 From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 10:18:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [whatwg] "Encoding declaration state" I hate the wording. In-Reply-To: <20090723020755.GU28818@chaosreigns.com> References: <20090723003500.GT28818@chaosreigns.com> <20090723020755.GU28818@chaosreigns.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 Darxus at ChaosReigns.com wrote: > > This took me a while to figure out. Please change: > > > 4.2.5 The meta element > > Metadata content. > > Contexts in which this element may be used: > > If the charset attribute is present, or if the element is in the Encoding > declaration state: in a head element. > > If the http-equiv attribute is present, and the element is not in the > Encoding declaration state: in a head element. > > If the http-equiv attribute is present, and the element is not in the > Encoding declaration state: in a noscript element that is a child of a head > element. > > > To: > > 4.2.5 The meta element > > Metadata content. > > Contexts in which this element may be used: > > If the charset attribute is present, or if the http-equiv attribute is > present with a value of content-type: in a head element. > > If the http-equiv attribute is present, and the http-equiv attribute is > present with a value that is not content-type: in a head element. > > If the http-equiv attribute is present, and the http-equiv attribute is > present with a value that is not content-type: in a noscript element that > is a child of a head element. > > > And similar with 4.2.5.3. On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 Darxus at ChaosReigns.com wrote: > > Maybe it would be better to just add > > "A meta element is in an Encoding declaration state when its http-equiv > attribute is present with a value of content-type." > > To the top of the definition of Encoding declaration state: > http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/semantics.html#attr-meta-http-equiv-content-type > > If you go to 4.2.5, the meta element, to figure out what constitutes a > valid meta element, you see a few uses of the phrase "Encoding declaration > state". They're all links. You click one, and it takes you to its > definition. > > Which says nothing about how to know if an element is in such a state. > Because that's in a table about one page up. I've tried to clarify the text while keeping it consistent with the style of the document. Please let me know if it is still confusing. Thanks, -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' From ian at hixie.ch Sat Aug 1 13:59:58 2009 From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 20:59:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [whatwg] Web Workers and postMessage(): Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, Daniel Gredler wrote: > > First, why does the structured clone algorithm used by postMessage() [1] > throw an exception if it encounters cycles? It seems to me that the > memory-based logic which is used to catch cycles could easily be > modified to resolve them instead. The only possible reason I can think > of is to match JSON semantics, and the only reason I can think of to > want to match JSON semantics is to make implementers lives easier > (witness Firefox 3.5, which just JSONifies objects passed to > postMessage()). However, this is a huge limitation, and I'm not sure > that the correct trade-off is to make implementers lives easier at the > expense of making web designers lives harder. Your guess is correct. I imagine we'll lift the restriction eventually; if you want to make that happen quicker, then I encourage you to speak directly to the browser vendors implementing this, and convince them it'd be worth it. :-) > Second, why not walk the prototype chain? Similar rules regarding host > objects and regular objects could apply to prototypes. You would want to > make sure that multiple references to the same prototype instance result > in references to a single prototype clone in the cloned object graph. > Again, though, it doesn't sound too hard (though I might just be > optimistic). Why not make web designers' lives easier? We're definitely never going to copy function code over, so it's not clear that the prototype chain would be that useful. Could you elaborate on your use case? > Overall, it just appears that the current web worker spec ignores the > class of computational problems involving results which need to be > modeled in a complex way. That's probably a fair criticism, yes. -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' From ian at hixie.ch Sat Aug 1 14:14:06 2009 From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:14:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [whatwg] AppCache and javascript url question? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, Michael Nordman wrote: > On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 3:10 AM, Ian Hickson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What appcache (if any) should the resulting iframes be > > > > > associated with? I think per the spec, the answer is none. Is > > > > > that the correct answer? > > > > > > > > > >