From lists at rikkertkoppes.com Mon Mar 2 01:19:22 2009 From: lists at rikkertkoppes.com (Rikkert Koppes) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:19:22 +0100 Subject: [whatwg] dl definition issue Message-ID: <49ABA49A.8090601@rikkertkoppes.com> At the dl element definition [1] a) "The order of the list of groups, and of the names and values within each group, may be significant." b) The |dl | element is inappropriate for marking up dialogue, since dialogue is ordered (each speaker/line pair comes after the next). It occurs to me that the argument, put forward in b), does not hold, since a). Hence, the argument needs to be rephrased or otherwise adjusted. For example: "The |dl | element is inappropriate for marking up dialogue, since dialog is a more appropriate semantic element. For an example of how to mark up dialogue, see the |dialog | element." [1] http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dl-element Regards, Rikkert Koppes From giecrilj at stegny.2a.pl Mon Mar 2 01:52:05 2009 From: giecrilj at stegny.2a.pl (=?us-ascii?Q?Kristof_Zelechovski?=) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:52:05 +0100 Subject: [whatwg] proposed canvas 2d API additions In-Reply-To: References: <9540d010604211210m3a901d4cq7130ed0c1f6d1e5a@mail.gmail.com><9540d010604211444rd22b967tc0c25b305210db7f@mail.gmail.com><9540d010604241526k425377fcw1f485518a137ac69@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C19C186441146CF8351BC7EEBB0FABF@POCZTOWIEC> Philip's demonstration of how to handle detection of pointing at the curve is miserably wrong. His curve is not typographically correct (bounding box!). The detection should be in based on of precomputed regions rather than flattening. This all can be done in script library, of course, but the library would have to rely on mathematical techniques that the graphic designer need not understand. And the region information could be cached on-demand when it is first needed. I think it would be better to build the thing into the browser. See my solution at (VML + VBScript required). Chris From ian at hixie.ch Mon Mar 2 02:08:41 2009 From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:08:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [whatwg] proposed canvas 2d API additions In-Reply-To: <4C19C186441146CF8351BC7EEBB0FABF@POCZTOWIEC> References: <9540d010604211210m3a901d4cq7130ed0c1f6d1e5a@mail.gmail.com><9540d010604211444rd22b967tc0c25b305210db7f@mail.gmail.com><9540d010604241526k425377fcw1f485518a137ac69@mail.gmail.com> <4C19C186441146CF8351BC7EEBB0FABF@POCZTOWIEC> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Kristof Zelechovski wrote: > > [...] I would like to remind everyone that communication on this list is expected to be cordial, pleasant, and cooperative. After multiple warnings, I've taken the rare step of banning Kristof's e-mail address from the mailing list for a week. It will be restored on Monday, March 9th. -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' From michaeln at google.com Mon Mar 2 12:49:12 2009 From: michaeln at google.com (Michael Nordman) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:49:12 -0800 Subject: [whatwg] /RemoteEventSource wierdness In-Reply-To: <8300F54B-FA01-4BA8-9D71-4DCA8ED2E923@geekhood.net> References: <63df84f0902172253m51b41e20v5af51f863eece887@mail.gmail.com> <8300F54B-FA01-4BA8-9D71-4DCA8ED2E923@geekhood.net> Message-ID: > One key feature that IMHO is needed in this area is sharing of events between pages/windows A cross-page event broadcast facility is co-mingled with the DOMStorage corner of the spec (see 5.11.1.5 The storage event). It may be nice to carve that out as a separate facility that can be utilized in the absence of storage. From annevk at opera.com Mon Mar 2 16:48:31 2009 From: annevk at opera.com (Anne van Kesteren) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:48:31 +0900 Subject: [whatwg] /RemoteEventSource wierdness In-Reply-To: References: <63df84f0902172253m51b41e20v5af51f863eece887@mail.gmail.com> <8300F54B-FA01-4BA8-9D71-4DCA8ED2E923@geekhood.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:49:12 +0900, Michael Nordman wrote: > A cross-page event broadcast facility is co-mingled with the > DOMStorage corner of the spec (see 5.11.1.5 The storage event). > > It may be nice to carve that out as a separate facility that can be > utilized in the absence of storage. Take a look at postMessage() ;-) (It ships in all browsers.) -- Anne van Kesteren http://annevankesteren.nl/ From michaeln at google.com Mon Mar 2 17:06:30 2009 From: michaeln at google.com (Michael Nordman) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:06:30 -0800 Subject: [whatwg] /RemoteEventSource wierdness In-Reply-To: References: <63df84f0902172253m51b41e20v5af51f863eece887@mail.gmail.com> <8300F54B-FA01-4BA8-9D71-4DCA8ED2E923@geekhood.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Anne van Kesteren wrote: > On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:49:12 +0900, Michael Nordman > wrote: >> >> A cross-page event broadcast facility is co-mingled with the >> DOMStorage corner of the spec (see 5.11.1.5 The storage event). >> >> It may be nice to carve that out as a separate facility that can be >> utilized in the absence of storage. > > Take a look at postMessage() ;-) (It ships in all browsers.) I was under the impression that postMessage() was directed at a particular window (or context). Does postMessage have a broadcast capability? Storage events have a broadcast'ish nature to them. Multiple windows (or contexts) will receive storage events as changes are made to the 'storage' area. The sender does not need to know anything about the receivers or of their existence. > > > -- > Anne van Kesteren > http://annevankesteren.nl/ > From annevk at opera.com Mon Mar 2 17:16:13 2009 From: annevk at opera.com (Anne van Kesteren) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:16:13 +0900 Subject: [whatwg] /RemoteEventSource wierdness In-Reply-To: References: <63df84f0902172253m51b41e20v5af51f863eece887@mail.gmail.com> <8300F54B-FA01-4BA8-9D71-4DCA8ED2E923@geekhood.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:06:30 +0900, Michael Nordman wrote: > I was under the impression that postMessage() was directed at a > particular window (or context). Does postMessage have a broadcast > capability? > > Storage events have a broadcast'ish nature to them. Multiple windows > (or contexts) will receive storage events as changes are made to the > 'storage' area. The sender does not need to know anything about the > receivers or of their existence. Sorry, I misunderstood what you meant. -- Anne van Kesteren http://annevankesteren.nl/ From chris at pearce.org.nz Tue Mar 3 13:17:18 2009 From: chris at pearce.org.nz (Chris Pearce) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:17:18 +1300 Subject: [whatwg] Media element delaying load event Message-ID: <49AD9E5E.4070603@pearce.org.nz> The media element spec says: > If a media element > > whose |networkState > | > has the value |NETWORK_EMPTY > | > is inserted into a document > , > the user agent must asynchronously invoke the media element > 's > resource selection algorithm > . The resource selection algorithm then goes on to set the delaying-the-load-event flag to true. Depending on how the asynchronous invocation is implemented, the document could actually complete loading during the time after the insertion of a media element, but before the resource-selection algorithm sets the delaying-the-load-event flag is set to true. This means the load event could fire during that time, even though we intended to delay the load event. Maybe we should set the delaying-the-load-event flag to true before we asynchronously call the resource-selection algorithm, and then then resource-selection algorithm can set the delaying-the-load-event flag to false if that decides it needs to wait for a src or source element child? Thanks, Chris Pearce. From lists at rikkertkoppes.com Wed Mar 4 00:55:04 2009 From: lists at rikkertkoppes.com (Rikkert Koppes) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 09:55:04 +0100 Subject: [whatwg] Example / pattern document for authors Message-ID: <49AE41E8.4070009@rikkertkoppes.com> Dear all, Would it be a nice idea to create a (non normative) example document for authors, containing at least the examples from the spec, amended with more elaborate examples of complete structures and real life samples? If so, would the whatwg wiki be a good start to host this, with the intend to create a document accompanying the specification? If the answer is yes, I would be happy to create a start. Regards, Rikkert Koppes From lists at rikkertkoppes.com Wed Mar 4 00:58:05 2009 From: lists at rikkertkoppes.com (Rikkert Koppes) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 09:58:05 +0100 Subject: [whatwg] Address example to be changed to lowercase Message-ID: <49AE429D.4030407@rikkertkoppes.com> In contrast to the rest of the spec, the address element example is shown in uppercase. For clarity, this would better be put in lowercase Regards, Rikkert Koppes From ian at hixie.ch Wed Mar 4 01:28:39 2009 From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [whatwg] Example / pattern document for authors In-Reply-To: <49AE41E8.4070009@rikkertkoppes.com> References: <49AE41E8.4070009@rikkertkoppes.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 2009, Rikkert Koppes wrote: > > Would it be a nice idea to create a (non normative) example document for > authors, containing at least the examples from the spec, amended with > more elaborate examples of complete structures and real life samples? If > so, would the whatwg wiki be a good start to host this, with the intend > to create a document accompanying the specification? If the answer is > yes, I would be happy to create a start. Yes, please do feel free to use the wiki for anything like this. Go nuts! You can also blog about it, if you like, the WHATWG blog is open to all. (You'll need someone to push the "publish" button because we found spammers were abusing it; just drop me or Lachy or jgraham a note and we'll hook you up.) -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' From ian at hixie.ch Wed Mar 4 01:36:27 2009 From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:36:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [whatwg] Address example to be changed to lowercase In-Reply-To: <49AE429D.4030407@rikkertkoppes.com> References: <49AE429D.4030407@rikkertkoppes.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 2009, Rikkert Koppes wrote: > > In contrast to the rest of the spec, the address element example is > shown in uppercase. For clarity, this would better be put in lowercase I intend to use a variety of correct styles in the examples, to emphasise that there is no "right answer" for this kind of thing. I haven't added many uppercase examples yet (the
ones are uppercase as part of an in-joke), but I expect there will be more over time. (Examples are something I plan to work on heavily this summer.) -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' From den.molib at gmail.com Wed Mar 4 09:51:44 2009 From: den.molib at gmail.com (Den.Molib) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:51:44 +0100 Subject: [whatwg] HttpOnly cookies reference Message-ID: <49AEBFB0.2040309@gmail.com> Section 3.2.3 says: > This specification does not define what makes an HTTP-only cookie, and > at the time of publication the editor is not aware of any reference > for HTTP-only cookies. They are a feature supported by some Web > browsers wherein an "|httponly|" parameter added to the cookie string > causes the cookie to be hidden from script. It is my understanding that Http-only cookies were first defined by Michael Howard on his blog entry titled 'Some Bad News and Some Good News' (October 21, 2002). That content is currently hosted at: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms972826.aspx (scroll to the section 'The Good News: Mitigating Cross-Site Scripting Issues') Microsoft urls are not too stable. It can also be reached from http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dncode/html/secure10102002.asp?frame=true (an old url, being used on http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2002/oct02/10-23xss-ie.mspx) or from the Wayback machine http://web.archive.org/web/20061007124347/http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dncode/html/secure10102002.asp From jim at eatyourgreens.org.uk Wed Mar 4 15:29:52 2009 From: jim at eatyourgreens.org.uk (Jim O'Donnell) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 23:29:52 +0000 Subject: [whatwg] Historic dates in HTML5 Message-ID: Hello, Apologies for coming in late but Bruce Lawson pointed me in the direction of this discussion I had some comments about dates in HTML5. Lachlan Hunt wrote: "The time element was primarily designed to address use cases involving contemporary dates. It doesn't address non-Gregorian calendars or BCE dates by design, as it is not really meant for historical dates. Probably the most historical dates that it would really be suitably optimised for are people's birthdates, which, for people alive today, don't really extend back beyond the early 20th century, with very few exceptions." Has any consideration been given to using the