and

elements, then the entire border appears. I presume that this is the expected (and correct) behavior; which part of the spec have I not read carefully enough? Test

Test of HTML 5 vs. Styles

first section

second section

From hsivonen at iki.fi Mon Jul 6 06:26:22 2009 From: hsivonen at iki.fi (Henri Sivonen) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 16:26:22 +0300 Subject: [html5] Borders: Firefox 3.5 vs. HTML 5 In-Reply-To: <81c753d0907051954y4ed0288dy2eb6698536b9f6f4@mail.gmail.com> References: <81c753d0907051954y4ed0288dy2eb6698536b9f6f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <74891319-27BD-443A-B028-6184DE4A4FCF@iki.fi> On Jul 6, 2009, at 05:54, J David Eisenberg wrote: > The following markup gives odd borders for the header and footer and > article in Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1) > Gecko/20090624 Firefox/3.5. > Specifically: the top and bottom borders do not appear at all. If I > remove the

in the

and

elements, then the entire > border appears. > > I presume that this is the expected (and correct) behavior; which part > of the spec have I not read carefully enough? Try adding header, article, nav, section, footer { display: block; } -- Henri Sivonen hsivonen at iki.fi http://hsivonen.iki.fi/ From ian at hixie.ch Thu Jul 9 18:09:53 2009 From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 01:09:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [html5] Absolute Pixels in HTML 5 In-Reply-To: <1a19d7d10906120831x36f24a31o5d795cdfd8c98492@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A31618A.8030809@ij.net> <1a19d7d10906120831x36f24a31o5d795cdfd8c98492@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Jun 2009, Felix Miata wrote: > > > > Even on Windows with a non-96dpi, browsers today still assume 96dpi, > > as far as I can tell. > > On Windows, some assume 96 (e.g. Safari, which I reported as a Safari > bug "UI text is too small for high PPI display environment" > https://bugreport.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/RadarWeb.woa/61/wo/APqcRdz7DDWD1jtFE8yeWw/3.79.28.0.9 > and related Webkit bug http://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18001 ), > while for others 96 is only a floor (e.g. Gecko). IE uses whatever DPI > has been specified for the desktop generally. No, it doesn't. http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/161 96 CSS pixels and one inch are the same in IE8, regardless of the screen resolution. On Fri, 12 Jun 2009, Christian Montoya wrote: > > 8 years ago I bought a Dell widescreen laptop, Inspiron 6000, and it was > pre-configured at 120 DPI. I've been telling people ever since, 96 DPI > is not a standard. Dell does this for a lot of widescreen laptops, and > that's just 1 vendor. That is independent of this discussion, as far as I can tell. -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' From mrmazda at earthlink.net Thu Jul 9 21:43:07 2009 From: mrmazda at earthlink.net (Felix Miata) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:43:07 -0400 Subject: [html5] Absolute Pixels in HTML 5 In-Reply-To: References: <4A31618A.8030809@ij.net> <1a19d7d10906120831x36f24a31o5d795cdfd8c98492@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A56C6DB.20704@earthlink.net> On 2009/07/09 21:09 (GMT-0400) Ian Hickson composed: > On Thu, 11 Jun 2009, Felix Miata wrote: >> > Even on Windows with a non-96dpi, browsers today still assume 96dpi, >> > as far as I can tell. >> On Windows, some assume 96 (e.g. Safari, which I reported as a Safari >> bug "UI text is too small for high PPI display environment" >> https://bugreport.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/RadarWeb.woa/61/wo/APqcRdz7DDWD1jtFE8yeWw/3.79.28.0.9 >> and related Webkit bug http://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18001 ), >> while for others 96 is only a floor (e.g. Gecko). IE uses whatever DPI >> has been specified for the desktop generally. > No, it doesn't. > http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/161 Well, based upon that URL with its 1em div borders, and in part because DPI generally implies a reference to device dots rather than CSS dots, I'm having a hard time deciding whether that is true or not. It might be easier if those divs were designed to render comparably regardless of browser personalities: IE7, Gecko, Safari & Opera @ 120 DPI on XP: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/hixie161-IE7.png Similar, with IE8: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/hixie161-IE8.png NAICT with IE8, px sizes are in CSS px [em]as adjusted according to the desktop DPI setting[/em], following http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/syndata.html#length-units, resulting in the same width for both 96px and 1" width divs, more similar to the "a" divs in Gecko, Opera & IE7 than their "b" divs. Using http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/dpi-screen-window.html it's readily apparent that all browsers except Safari render the 1" images the same width, even though IE8 has scaled CSS px up by 25% via the 120 DPI desktop setting and reports using 96 DPI where Gecko & Opera report the desktop setting. > 96 CSS pixels and one inch are the same in IE8, regardless of the screen > resolution. I hadn't yet installed IE8 on anything when I wrote what you replied to. So, to recap, there are now 3 main behaviorally disguishable groups (among latest official browser releases) on Windows: 1-IE8, via 4.3.2 spec uses desktop DPI setting to determine all px & absolute sizing 2-Safari, always 96 DPI device px=CSS px regardless of system settings & hardware 3-pre-v8 IE, Gecko & (NAICT) Opera, which (below 192 DPI at least) in latest versions still equate device px to CSS px, and floor DPI at 96 (no floor in IE) Note that because the installed base of IE8 is much smaller than that of earlier versions, "IE" behavior averages behavior equivalent to Gecko & Opera. ;-) -- No Jesus - No peace , Know Jesus - Know Peace Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ From netarchitect at randasolutions.com Mon Jul 13 05:30:53 2009 From: netarchitect at randasolutions.com (Mykal Luttrell) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 07:30:53 -0500 Subject: [html5] I would like to contribute to the spec Message-ID: <2E56B5673C56EB45AAA28774FA3EA3220172786E@server61.RAD.randasolutions.com> I have been watching the threads for quite some time and I was wondering what I need to do to take part in the shaping of this new language. Also I have some questions as a long time professional in the field to put ot the group. Mykal M. A. Luttrell Sr. Sr. Web Applications Architect Randa Solutions Inc. 722 Rundle Ave. Nashville, Tennessee 37027 (615) 424-9988 This e-mail, including any attached files, may contain confidential and privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution, or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited and could be subject to and be punishable by law. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive information for the intended recipient), please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2305 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From ashannon1000 at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 10:38:28 2009 From: ashannon1000 at gmail.com (Adam Shannon) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:38:28 -0500 Subject: [html5] I would like to contribute to the spec In-Reply-To: <2E56B5673C56EB45AAA28774FA3EA3220172786E@server61.RAD.randasolutions.com> References: <2E56B5673C56EB45AAA28774FA3EA3220172786E@server61.RAD.randasolutions.com> Message-ID: <3c4f8cda0907131038l73e941e8o8a2113b5cd6032a@mail.gmail.com> I'm sure that we would be willing to hear your input, but your email client seems to be sending out text/html emails, this is very uncommon and not "mailing-list etiquette". On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Mykal Luttrell < netarchitect at randasolutions.com> wrote: > I have been watching the threads for quite some time and I was wondering > what I need to do to take part in the shaping of this new language. > > > > Also I have some questions as a long time professional in the field to put > ot the group. > > > > Mykal > > > > M. A. Luttrell Sr. > > Sr. Web Applications Architect > > > > [image: cid:3284705941_56103691] > > * * > > Randa Solutions Inc. > > 722 Rundle Ave. > > Nashville, Tennessee 37027 > > (615) 424-9988 > > > > This e-mail, including any attached files, may contain confidential and > privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, use, distribution, or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited > and could be subject to and be punishable by law. If you are not the > intended recipient (or authorized to receive information for the intended > recipient), please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies > of this message. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Help mailing list > Help at lists.whatwg.org > http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org > > -- - Adam Shannon ( http://ashannon.us ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2305 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ian at hixie.ch Mon Jul 13 14:51:18 2009 From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:51:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [html5] I would like to contribute to the spec In-Reply-To: <2E56B5673C56EB45AAA28774FA3EA3220172786E@server61.RAD.randasolutions.com> References: <2E56B5673C56EB45AAA28774FA3EA3220172786E@server61.RAD.randasolutions.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jul 2009, Mykal Luttrell wrote: > > I have been watching the threads for quite some time and I was wondering > what I need to do to take part in the shaping of this new language. To contribute to the HTML5 language, you want to subscribe to whatwg at whatwg.org, and just send your comments. There's no special process. See also: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/FAQ > Also I have some questions as a long time professional in the field to > put ot the group. If you have questions about authoring HTML, then this mailing list (help at whatwg.org) is the right one; just ask away! -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' From tatham at oddie.com.au Mon Jul 13 15:18:13 2009 From: tatham at oddie.com.au (Tatham Oddie) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:18:13 +1000 Subject: [html5] I would like to contribute to the spec In-Reply-To: <3c4f8cda0907131038l73e941e8o8a2113b5cd6032a@mail.gmail.com> References: <2E56B5673C56EB45AAA28774FA3EA3220172786E@server61.RAD.randasolutions.com> <3c4f8cda0907131038l73e941e8o8a2113b5cd6032a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <01da01ca0407$d16834b0$74389e10$@com.au> Oh deary me, the irony. The HTMLWG mailing list doesn't like text/html. Seriously now ... we're not in the 80s. Thanks, Tatham Oddie au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 213 422 7068, skype: tathamoddie, landline: +61 2 8011 3982, fax: +61 2 9475 5172 my business: tixi.com.au - Ticketing without the dramas From: help-bounces at lists.whatwg.org [mailto:help-bounces at lists.whatwg.org] On Behalf Of Adam Shannon Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2009 3:38 AM To: Mykal Luttrell Cc: help at whatwg.org Subject: Re: [html5] I would like to contribute to the spec I'm sure that we would be willing to hear your input, but your email client seems to be sending out text/html emails, this is very uncommon and not "mailing-list etiquette". On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Mykal Luttrell wrote: I have been watching the threads for quite some time and I was wondering what I need to do to take part in the shaping of this new language. Also I have some questions as a long time professional in the field to put ot the group. Mykal M. A. Luttrell Sr. Sr. Web Applications Architect cid:3284705941_56103691 Randa Solutions Inc. 722 Rundle Ave. Nashville, Tennessee 37027 (615) 424-9988 This e-mail, including any attached files, may contain confidential and privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution, or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited and could be subject to and be punishable by law. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive information for the intended recipient), please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message. _______________________________________________ Help mailing list Help at lists.whatwg.org http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org -- - Adam Shannon ( http://ashannon.us ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2305 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dmatsueda at bsr.org Mon Jul 13 15:37:00 2009 From: dmatsueda at bsr.org (Dean Matsueda) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:37:00 -0700 Subject: [html5] I would like to contribute to the spec In-Reply-To: <01da01ca0407$d16834b0$74389e10$@com.au> References: <2E56B5673C56EB45AAA28774FA3EA3220172786E@server61.RAD.randasolutions.com> <3c4f8cda0907131038l73e941e8o8a2113b5cd6032a@mail.gmail.com> <01da01ca0407$d16834b0$74389e10$@com.au> Message-ID: <8131B07B59F79A4A9CD58385C733046A21409C7DEC@jekyll.bsr.org> > The HTMLWG mailing list doesn't like text/html. Well, thank Buddha for that. I just don't see the point in emailing web pages -- non-semantic, non-standard, bloated mark-up at that -- to each other for very simple, text-based messages. Oh, and get off my lawn. :) From hello at aentan.com Mon Jul 13 16:01:01 2009 From: hello at aentan.com (Aen Tan) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 07:01:01 +0800 Subject: [html5] Image captions in FIGUREs Message-ID: Dear friends, I'm a designer with a background in UI design. Call me Aen and this is my first post to the list. I'm just adopted HTML 5 and have started using it for a site which I will soon be launching. The reason I converted to HTML 5 is because I'm attracted to the simplicity and flexibility of the syntax compared to XHTML. I'm also a sucker for semantics because I believe information should be flowing freely around the web and semantics help. I'm using the FIGURE element to display images and I understand the correct element to use for captions, for now, is the LEGEND element. The thing is, it is unstyle-able. I hope one day WHATWG will figure this out and let designers use CSS to style the LEGEND element or call it something else. So for now, what do you guys use? I'm using

Figure 1. XYZ

for now, gets the job done. ? Aen Tan Designer & Thinker hello at aentan.com aentan.com http://twitter.com/Aen From Simetrical+w3c at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 16:56:10 2009 From: Simetrical+w3c at gmail.com (Aryeh Gregor) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:56:10 -0400 Subject: [html5] Image captions in FIGUREs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7c2a12e20907131656p626254c9t2139881dd6248eaf@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Aen Tan wrote: > I'm just adopted HTML 5 and have started using it for a site which I > will soon be launching. The reason I converted to HTML 5 is because > I'm attracted to the simplicity and flexibility of the syntax compared > to XHTML. I'm also a sucker for semantics because I believe > information should be flowing freely around the web and semantics > help. I'm using the FIGURE element to display images and I understand > the correct element to use for captions, for now, is the LEGEND > element. The thing is, it is unstyle-able. Read these: http://blog.whatwg.org/supporting-new-elements-in-ie http://blog.whatwg.org/styling-ie-noscript http://blog.whatwg.org/supporting-new-elements-in-firefox-2 The problem is not something the WHATWG can fix. Internet Explorer will have to fix it in a future version. Until then, you can work around it in existing versions using script, if you're willing to do that. Otherwise, you can't use the new HTML 5 semantic elements yet, but you can still use other features. From hello at aentan.com Mon Jul 13 17:29:14 2009 From: hello at aentan.com (Aen Tan) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:29:14 +0800 Subject: [html5] Image captions in FIGUREs In-Reply-To: <7c2a12e20907131656p626254c9t2139881dd6248eaf@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c2a12e20907131656p626254c9t2139881dd6248eaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I was specifically referring to the LEGEND element. On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Aryeh Gregor wrote: > On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Aen Tan wrote: >> I'm just adopted HTML 5 and have started using it for a site which I >> will soon be launching. The reason I converted to HTML 5 is because >> I'm attracted to the simplicity and flexibility of the syntax compared >> to XHTML. I'm also a sucker for semantics because I believe >> information should be flowing freely around the web and semantics >> help. I'm using the FIGURE element to display images and I understand >> the correct element to use for captions, for now, is the LEGEND >> element. The thing is, it is unstyle-able. > > Read these: > > http://blog.whatwg.org/supporting-new-elements-in-ie > http://blog.whatwg.org/styling-ie-noscript > http://blog.whatwg.org/supporting-new-elements-in-firefox-2 > > The problem is not something the WHATWG can fix. ?Internet Explorer > will have to fix it in a future version. ?Until then, you can work > around it in existing versions using script, if you're willing to do > that. ?Otherwise, you can't use the new HTML 5 semantic elements yet, > but you can still use other features. > From Simetrical+w3c at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 17:52:22 2009 From: Simetrical+w3c at gmail.com (Aryeh Gregor) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:52:22 -0400 Subject: [html5] Image captions in FIGUREs In-Reply-To: References: <7c2a12e20907131656p626254c9t2139881dd6248eaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7c2a12e20907131752h1df34742w99c34cf45d39527b@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Aen Tan wrote: > I was specifically referring to the LEGEND element. That seems to work less. WebKit just removes it from the DOM. Are you suggesting that for compatibility, it should be named something else so that it works at least as well as the other elements? From zcorpan at gmail.com Thu Jul 16 07:07:07 2009 From: zcorpan at gmail.com (Simon Pieters) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:07:07 +0200 Subject: [html5] Trying to help, please help me In-Reply-To: <4A49E147.40209@keryx.se> References: <4A4600FF.1090104@keryx.se> <4A47AC57.8070308@keryx.se> <4A49E147.40209@keryx.se> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:56:23 +0200, Keryx Web wrote: > On 2009-06-28 19:45, Keryx Web wrote: >> On 2009-06-27 20:47, Simon Pieters wrote: > > > ... > > I think I have addressed all of your concerns. An updated version is now > up at: http://keryx.se/resources/html-elements/ Regarding "Viewport in XHTML" and "Viewport in HTML": this was changed so that it works the same in XHTML as in HTML. Also, technically, neither nor are the viewport, but in some cases some properties apply to the viewport instead of the element itself. > (I tried to thank you on twitter, but could not find you...) Makes sense since I don't have a twitter account. :-) -- Simon Pieters From =?UTF-8?B?In46Jycg44GC44KK44GM44Go44GG44GU44GW44GE44G+44GX44Gf?= Tue Jul 28 10:24:20 2009 From: =?UTF-8?B?In46Jycg44GC44KK44GM44Go44GG44GU44GW44GE44G+44GX44Gf?= (=?UTF-8?B?In46Jycg44GC44KK44GM44Go44GG44GU44GW44GE44G+44GX44Gf?=) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 18:24:20 +0100 Subject: [html5] mozilla, opera and mp3/aac codec Message-ID: <7E2B2AC6-454E-49CC-9CB9-CF8B76B0EE87@btinternet.com> mozilla, opera and mp3/aac codec opera and mozilla already play mp3 files, whether linked directly or in a document such as: http://www.honte.eu/audio/object.svg This may not be native and via a third party application, though I cannot tell. so why cannot