Namespace example

From jesper.tverskov at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 00:44:59 2011 From: jesper.tverskov at gmail.com (Jesper Tverskov) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 09:44:59 +0200 Subject: [html5] HTML5 without namespaces Message-ID: Hi list When HTML5 is served with mimetype "text/html" we don't need namespace declarations for SVG and MathM, or for ARIA (accessibility) attributes. They are all part of the spec and given special treatment. As I have understood it, something more or less similar is under way to support RDFa inside HTML5 served with mimetype "text/html". http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/rdfa-module.html I don't know if RDFa has to become part of the HTML5 spec to be integrated into HTML5 served with mimetype "text/html" or if there is some other way to allow RDFa inside HTML5? Now my main question: What are our options, the day we would like to support other applications in HTML5, like, let us say "musicScoreML", "VoiceML", etc, (I'm just making them up, for the argument, we don't care if they exist or if they are relevant to include or not)? Will we need to make a new version of the spec, to include the new applications the way it has been done with SVG, MathML and ARIA, or do we have other options? We could of course just use XHTML5, that it HTML5 served with "application/xhtml+xml", but I find it very unlikely that the browsers will ever start supporting a new application if there is no way to use it in HTML5 served as "text/html". Cheers Jesper Tverskov http://www.xmlplease.com From mgainty at hotmail.com Wed Jun 1 03:20:38 2011 From: mgainty at hotmail.com (Martin Gainty) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 06:20:38 -0400 Subject: [html5] HTML5 without namespaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID:

2.9 NamespacesThe HTML namespace is: http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtmlThe MathML namespace is: http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathMLThe SVG namespace is: http://www.w3.org/2000/svgThe XLink namespace is: http://www.w3.org/1999/xlinkThe XML namespace is: http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespaceThe XMLNS namespace is: http://www.w3.org/2000/xmlns/Data mining tools and other user agents that perform operations on content without running scripts, evaluating CSS or XPath expressions, or otherwise exposing the resulting DOM to arbitrary content, may "support namespaces" by just asserting that their DOM node analogues are in certain namespaces, without actually exposing the above strings. i interpret the above to mean: included namespace must not evaluate XPath expressions: included namespace must not contain CSS stylesheet attributes but look at the html5 namespace declarator here Namespace example IE will display this in red because of the HTML5 namespace.the author is referencing the header attribute of html5 declarator defined at http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml ? Martin Gainty ______________________________________________ Jogi ?s Bizalmass?gi kinyilatkoztat?s/Verzicht und Vertraulichkeitanmerkung/Note de d?ni et de confidentialit? Ez az ?zenet bizalmas. Ha nem ?n az akinek sz?nva volt, akkor k?rj?k, hogy jelentse azt nek?nk vissza. Semmif?le tov?bb?t?sa vagy m?solat?nak k?sz?t?se nem megengedett. Ez az ?zenet csak ismeret cser?t szolg?l ?s semmif?le jogi alkalmazhat?s?ga sincs. Mivel az electronikus ?zenetek k?nnyen megv?ltoztathat?ak, ez?rt minket semmi felel?s?g nem terhelhet ezen ?zenet tartalma miatt. Diese Nachricht ist vertraulich. Sollten Sie nicht der vorgesehene Empfaenger sein, so bitten wir hoeflich um eine Mitteilung. Jede unbefugte Weiterleitung oder Fertigung einer Kopie ist unzulaessig. Diese Nachricht dient lediglich dem Austausch von Informationen und entfaltet keine rechtliche Bindungswirkung. Aufgrund der leichten Manipulierbarkeit von E-Mails koennen wir keine Haftung fuer den Inhalt uebernehmen. Ce message est confidentiel et peut ?tre privil?gi?. Si vous n'?tes pas le destinataire pr?vu, nous te demandons avec bont? que pour satisfaire informez l'exp?diteur. N'importe quelle diffusion non autoris?e ou la copie de ceci est interdite. Ce message sert ? l'information seulement et n'aura pas n'importe quel effet l?galement obligatoire. ?tant donn? que les email peuvent facilement ?tre sujets ? la manipulation, nous ne pouvons accepter aucune responsabilit? pour le contenu fourni. > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 09:44:59 +0200 > From: jesper.tverskov at gmail.com > To: help at lists.whatwg.org > Subject: [html5] HTML5 without namespaces > > Hi list > > When HTML5 is served with mimetype "text/html" we don't need namespace > declarations for SVG and MathM, or for ARIA (accessibility) > attributes. They are all part of the spec and given special treatment. > > As I have understood it, something more or less similar is under way > to support RDFa inside HTML5 served with mimetype "text/html". > > http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/rdfa-module.html > > I don't know if RDFa has to become part of the HTML5 spec to be > integrated into HTML5 served with mimetype "text/html" or if there is > some other way to allow RDFa inside HTML5? > > Now my main question: > > What are our options, the day we would like to support other > applications in HTML5, like, let us say "musicScoreML", "VoiceML", > etc, (I'm just making them up, for the argument, we don't care if > they exist or if they are relevant to include or not)? > > Will we need to make a new version of the spec, to include the new > applications the way it has been done with SVG, MathML and ARIA, or do > we have other options? > > We could of course just use XHTML5, that it HTML5 served with > "application/xhtml+xml", but I find it very unlikely that the browsers > will ever start supporting a new application if there is no way to use > it in HTML5 served as "text/html". > > Cheers > Jesper Tverskov > http://www.xmlplease.com > _______________________________________________ > Help mailing list > Help at lists.whatwg.org > http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jesper.tverskov at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 04:21:21 2011 From: jesper.tverskov at gmail.com (Jesper Tverskov) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 13:21:21 +0200 Subject: [html5] HTML5 without namespaces In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: As I have understood it, 8.1.2. Elements, HTML5 served with "text/html", that is HTML parsing, ignores all explicit namespace declaration. But they are allowed if the HTML5 spec supports them implicit. A prefixed element name is no longer a namespace prefix in HTML5, the prefix and the colon is part of the local-name. I repeat my question: What do we do the day we would like to support some new exciting application not mentioned in the HTML5 spec. Do we have to make a new spec to support the new namespace in the implicit way or what? We can use XHTML5 instead (HTML5 served with mimetype "application/xhtml+xml"), having an explicit namespace mechanism, and we must declare the new markup in the schema, it we want our XHTML5 to validate, but it is unlikely that any new application, that cannot be integrated into "HTML5" served with mimetype "text/html", will ever be implemented by the browsers? Cheers Jesper Tverskov http://www.xmlplease.com From hsivonen at iki.fi Wed Jun 1 07:51:18 2011 From: hsivonen at iki.fi (Henri Sivonen) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:51:18 +0300 Subject: [html5] HTML5 without namespaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1306939878.2893.81.camel@shuttle> On Wed, 2011-06-01 at 09:44 +0200, Jesper Tverskov wrote: > As I have understood it, something more or less similar is under way > to support RDFa inside HTML5 served with mimetype "text/html". > > http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/rdfa-module.html > > I don't know if RDFa has to become part of the HTML5 spec to be > integrated into HTML5 served with mimetype "text/html" or if there is > some other way to allow RDFa inside HTML5? RDFa is not integrated into HTML parsing. The group specifying RDFa uses attributes of the form xmlns:foo, but those attributes are not namespace declarations in text/html. The group specifying RDFa has been notified about this repeatedly. While they have introduced alternative syntax, they have refused to get rid of the xmlns:foo syntax even though xmlns:foo is represented differently in the DOM in the text/html case compared to the application/xhtml+xml case. > Now my main question: > > What are our options, the day we would like to support other > applications in HTML5, like, let us say "musicScoreML", "VoiceML", > etc, (I'm just making them up, for the argument, we don't care if > they exist or if they are relevant to include or not)? SVG and MathML were pre-existing languages and already implemented in (some) browser engines. That's why they stayed in their namespaces. If you are designing new vocabulary additions to the Web platform today, putting the additions in the (X)HTML namespace avoids the problem of having to introduce new namespaces. -- Henri Sivonen hsivonen at iki.fi http://hsivonen.iki.fi/ From jdavid.eisenberg at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 09:13:35 2011 From: jdavid.eisenberg at gmail.com (J David Eisenberg) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 09:13:35 -0700 Subject: [html5] HTML5 without namespaces In-Reply-To: <1306939878.2893.81.camel@shuttle> References: <1306939878.2893.81.camel@shuttle> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Henri Sivonen wrote: > On Wed, 2011-06-01 at 09:44 +0200, Jesper Tverskov wrote: >> As I have understood it, something more or less similar is under way >> to support RDFa inside HTML5 served with mimetype "text/html". >> >> http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/rdfa-module.html >> >> I don't know if RDFa has to become part of the HTML5 spec to be >> integrated into HTML5 served with mimetype "text/html" or if there is >> some other way to allow RDFa inside HTML5? > > RDFa is not integrated into HTML parsing. The group specifying RDFa uses > attributes of the form xmlns:foo, but those attributes are not namespace > declarations in text/html. The group specifying RDFa has been notified > about this repeatedly. While they have introduced alternative syntax, > they have refused to get rid of the xmlns:foo syntax even though > xmlns:foo is represented differently in the DOM in the text/html case > compared to the application/xhtml+xml case. > >> Now my main question: >> >> What are our options, the day we would like to support other >> applications in HTML5, like, let us say "musicScoreML", "VoiceML", >> etc, ?(I'm just making them up, for the argument, we don't care if >> they exist or if they are relevant to include or not)? > > SVG and MathML were pre-existing languages and already implemented in > (some) browser engines. That's why they stayed in their namespaces. If > you are designing new vocabulary additions to the Web platform today, > putting the additions in the (X)HTML namespace avoids the problem of > having to introduce new namespaces. > I don't see that as an entirely satisfactory solution. From reading http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Namespace_confusion, one might get the impression that namespaces were introduced solely to create bugs and mystify everyone. For example, there's a reference to a page where an O'Reilly author says "I can report that 90% of the technical questions from readers involve confusion related to namespaces." However, if you read that entire page (http://www.w3.org/2004/04/webapps-cdf-ws/papers/verity.html), you'll see that the author namespaces help to solve the problem of handling compound documents. With some mechanism for clearly identifying the parts of compound documents that have varying document types (and I am *NOT* saying that it must be namespaces, nor that namespaces are the ideal method), you solve the problem of collisions between element names. Such a mechanism would also enable a UA to hand off a section of markup belonging to some other document type to a plugin that is registered to parse/interpret/display it. Simply "putting the additions in the (X)HTML namespace" doesn't seem to solve the name collision problem, and it appears to make (X)HTML more monolithic than modular; it is as if there is no longer any such thing as a compound document; it's all (X)HTML. > -- > Henri Sivonen > hsivonen at iki.fi > http://hsivonen.iki.fi/ > > _______________________________________________ > Help mailing list > Help at lists.whatwg.org > http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org > From herman at agrabush.com Wed Jun 1 11:22:03 2011 From: herman at agrabush.com (Herman Hassel) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 20:22:03 +0200 Subject: [html5] HTML5 without namespaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DE6834B.6030801@agrabush.com> On 20:59, Jesper Tverskov wrote: > Hi list > > When HTML5 is served with mimetype "text/html" we don't need namespace > declarations for SVG and MathM, or for ARIA (accessibility) > attributes. They are all part of the spec and given special treatment. > > As I have understood it, something more or less similar is under way > to support RDFa inside HTML5 served with mimetype "text/html". > > http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/rdfa-module.html > > I don't know if RDFa has to become part of the HTML5 spec to be > integrated into HTML5 served with mimetype "text/html" or if there is > some other way to allow RDFa inside HTML5? > > [...] > > Cheers > Jesper Tverskov > http://www.xmlplease.com This has come up in several of our meetings and a lot of googling for answers has been going on, but to very little avail. All of our customers want the facebook open graph protocol ( http://developers.facebook.com/docs/opengraph/ ) implemented on their pages, but we need to serve our pages as text/html for browser compatibility, and neither xmlns-declarations or tags will validate. If you include objects, they do work on facebook, (served as text/html, with or without the namespace declarations) But I'd really like for someone to comment on if there is a correct/verified way versus what is "current best practices". -- Herman Hassel Agrabush Design mail: herman at agrabush.com twitter: http://twitter.com/agrabush -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mroth at trade-service.eu Sat Jun 4 10:27:19 2011 From: mroth at trade-service.eu (Mathias Roth) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 19:27:19 +0200 Subject: [html5] HTML5 and Microformats Message-ID: <002f01cc22dc$a81a57f0$f84f07d0$@eu> Dear developers I've spent some time this weekend trying to find out why http://validator.w3.org does declare most of the "rel" attributes in head and body, recommended by XFN, hCard, Dublin Core, ICBM and others, as non-valid since some days. Some of them are very etablished, some of them are yet unofficial, but used widely. Not even the quite useful to the bottom, as recommended by Tantik Celik. What I don't understand: HTML5 and Microformats are in the same way supported by the same group of people, I guess it's You. WordPress makes heavy use of both (what I really like), hence a default "twentyten" site will now show up about 80 "errors" in the validator, as well as mine (e.g. http://strassen-030.de/) since that day. This doesn't seem to make much sense to me, as Matt Mullenweg is also part of the W3C group. I've decided to remove all my "valid html" validator links for now (although I really hate to not have it on 100%, and that is still the fact), and to keep on using what I have: HTML5 templates and microdata - hoping that this is a passing muddle. If there is any other way, your advice is very welcome. Greetings, Mathias mroth at trade-service.eu Ossastr. 37, 12045 Berlin Trade Service Network Rungestr. 22, 10179 Berlin Fon +49 (0)30 - 810 014 82 Fax +49 (0)30 - 810 014 83 Cell +49 (0)172 - 26 537 24 http://1a-sales.com http://dsl-berlin.info http://trade-service.eu http://starthilfeberlin.de Steuernr: 16/498/50465 USt.Id Nr: DE 22 40 65 295 Web, Business, Berlin, Welt, Politik... Jetzt lesen unter www.strassen-030.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hsivonen at iki.fi Mon Jun 6 05:21:43 2011 From: hsivonen at iki.fi (Henri Sivonen) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 15:21:43 +0300 Subject: [html5] HTML5 and Microformats In-Reply-To: <002f01cc22dc$a81a57f0$f84f07d0$@eu> References: <002f01cc22dc$a81a57f0$f84f07d0$@eu> Message-ID: <1307362903.4118.36.camel@shuttle> On Sat, 2011-06-04 at 19:27 +0200, Mathias Roth wrote: > I?ve spent some time this weekend trying to find out why > http://validator.w3.org does declare most of the ?rel? attributes in > head and body, recommended by XFN, hCard, Dublin Core, ICBM and > others, as non-valid since some days. Some of them are very > etablished, some of them are yet unofficial, but used widely. > Not even the quite useful I?ve read about the deprecated ?profile? tag, and replaced it by > ?prefetch? in the head (which I guess only works in FF), and added an > to the bottom, as > recommended by Tantik Celik. "profile" is not relevant here. > I?ve decided to remove all my ?valid html? validator links for now > (although I really hate to not have it on 100%, and that is still the > fact), and to keep on using what I have: HTML5 templates and microdata > ? hoping that this is a passing muddle. If there is any other way, > your advice is very welcome. You can help by registering stuff by following the links in the error messages that the validator shows you and editing the wikis with the information that the HTML(5) spec(s) require registrations to have. The registry changes aren't reflected in real time. I suggest you give the W3C validator maintainer a week or so to redeploy after you've made registrations. -- Henri Sivonen hsivonen at iki.fi http://hsivonen.iki.fi/ From ian at hixie.ch Tue Jun 14 17:02:46 2011 From: ian at hixie.ch (Ian Hickson) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 00:02:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [html5] Help with html 5 security In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, Mario Juric wrote: > > I'd like to ask if anyone has any information on html5 security and how > it varies from previous versions of html, given the fact it's a work in > progress it's bound to have some glitches. Some examples of website > based attack, methods for security testing and any kind of simple html5 > security tutorial would be appreciated HTML5 is just HTML, so the security model is the same. We've added some new things recently, e.g. the sandbox iframe, text/html-sandboxed, CORS, and typemustmatch="". You can find out more about those in the spec: http://whatwg.org/c -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' From derek at websiteni.com Wed Jun 15 04:27:42 2011 From: derek at websiteni.com (Derek Johnson) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 12:27:42 +0100 Subject: [html5] Why is nav sectioning content? Message-ID: <001e01cc2b4f$3f178ae0$bd46a0a0$@com> Why is nav sectioning content? Derek Johnson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cassini at utdallas.edu Wed Jun 15 14:17:24 2011 From: cassini at utdallas.edu (Nazir, Cassini) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:17:24 +0000 Subject: [html5] Content Ordering Message-ID: Is it possible to re-order content using CSS without using absolute positioning? Here's what I mean: I'm playing around with multiple stylesheets for a site that I'm working on. I would like the