<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Hi Lewis,<br><br>I think that Ian's comments convey that one can use both approaches. The WHATWG specs show both types of approaches as valid examples.<br><br>It's the W3C spec that's now recommending people **not** use the "h1 only" approach for the sake of AT (assistive technology) and browsers (as they do not, yet, implement/expose any sort of outline algorithm; i.e., they see the H1s as top-level no matter the parent tag).<br>
<br></div><div>Looks like Steve posted a pretty good WIKI page link that explains the W3C point of view (or, facts).<br><br></div><div>One can still use the "h1 only" approach, but you could be creating problems for yourself as far as AT and browsers are concerned.<br>
<br></div><div>With that said, I kinda like to think that the "h1 only" approach is like "coding for the future". The problem is, apparently, as Steve has pointed out, the HTML5 outliner has been around for ~10 years and hasn't been fully implemented in any popular browsers or AT software.<br>
<br></div><div>In other words, we can still use the "h1 only" and just hope that one day a browser/AT device will support the way the HTML5 outliner sees the structure of the document (i.e., code for the future, but no one knows when that future will arrive).<br>
</div><br></div>At least, that's how I understand the situation based on discussions we've had on this list.<br><div><div><br></div><div>Hopefully that helps to summarize. Anyone, please correct me if my summary is wrong or missing something.<br>
<br>Cheers,<br>M<br></div><div><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Lewis Dexter Litanzios / ldexterldesign <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mail@ldexterldesign.co.uk" target="_blank">mail@ldexterldesign.co.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Hey Ian,<br>
<br>
Your suggestion makes writing <u>portable</u> mark-up difficult,
which I thought we were moving away from with the introduction of
sectioning elems?<br>
<br>
For example I could create the following mark-up in one section of
my website and use it on another page, where the heading may need to
be a h2 instead of a h1:<br>
<blockquote><font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"><section></font><br>
<font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">
<h1>Heading</h1></font><br>
<font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"> <p>Lorem
ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit. Minus,
tempore, dolorum, beatae a repudiandae obcaecati officia placeat
ab iusto vero nobis eveniet distinctio dolor totam laborum
recusandae dolore repellat eos.</p></font><br>
<font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"></section></font><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
... rather than simply using h1 site wide and knowing where ever I
include it - providing it's sectioned - my mark-up snippet will nest
nicely into a sensible document outline, I now have to worry about
heading details :/<br>
<br>
Where can I reference browser support for outline algorithm - I did
think it came with the html5 doctype?!<br>
<br>
Thanks,<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div>On 12/05/2014 23:36, Ian Hickson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>On Fri, 9 May 2014, Micky Hulse wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Ok, so, W3C is changing the language, but what is WHATWG doing (or, have
plans to do)?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>As you pointed out, some people are "hating" on <section> and <h1> and so
on. It's not really clear to me why; the concerns haven't really been well
explained IMHO. There's no plan to change any of this in the WHATWG spec.
(I'm especially confused because this style actually comes from XHTML2,
which was championed by the W3C.)
One thing to bear in mind is that in legacy browsers that don't support
style sheets, and in some accessibility tools that haven't yet been
updated to match the HTML spec, the "<section>" elements are "invisible"
(unknown, treated like <div>). This leads to the <h1>s being treated as
page headers in those UAs. To avoid this problem, while we wait for
support to be more widely available, my recommendation is to use <h2>-<h6>
with <section>, as in:
<h1>...</h1>
<section>
<h2>...</h2>
<section>
<h3>...</h3>
...
...instead of:
<h1>...</h1>
<section>
<h1>...</h1>
<section>
<h1>...</h1>
...
The spec defines these as semantically identical, precisely to enable this
transition period. We'll be able to use the <section>/<h1> style without
even this trouble eventually. If you're not interested in targetting those
browsers (e.g. you're just writing something for your own use) then I
wouldn't worry about any of this.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>-- <br>
<div>
<div>ldexterldesign</div>
<a href="http://www.ldexterldesign.co.uk/" title="ldexterldesign.co.uk" target="_blank"> <img alt="ldexterldesign logo" src="cid:part1.00010001.00060001@ldexterldesign.co.uk"> </a>
<div> <span>Lewis</span> <span>Dexter</span> <span>Litanzios</span> </div>
<div>Web Designer & Developer</div>
<a href="mailto:mail@ldexterldesign.co.uk" target="_blank">mail@ldexterldesign.co.uk</a>
<div>+44 7504 907 304</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></span></div>
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