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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Do you mean that HTML is becoming more structure driven?<br><br>WHATWG standard section 3.4.4.2 "Kinds of content" talks about the different types of content - metadata, sectioning, flow, heading, phrasing, embedded and interactive. If elements describe their content rather than structure, this model no longer makes sense. An index can be a section, perhaps, but as an index describing the document's relationship to other documents, why not metadata? If the index is the whole page or significant part that might have sections, why not a sectioning route?<br>I'm being a bit silly with those examples, but even so, there is some room for argument there. Describing content is not the focus of the document outline.<br><br><hr>Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 17:25:34 -0500<br>Subject: Re: [html5] Appropriate markup for index documents<br>From: yrocsand@gmail.com<br>To: binderbound@hotmail.com<br>CC: andrew.croce@gmail.com; help@whatwg.org<br><br><div dir=ltr><div class=ecxgmail_extra><div class=ecxgmail_quote>On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Not Telling <span dir=ltr><<a href="mailto:binderbound@hotmail.com" target=_blank>binderbound@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=ecxgmail_quote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div><div dir=ltr>HTML is becoming increasingly focused on structure [...] There are examples in HTML where content is described, such as Blockquote, but these are mostly left behind from HTML 4<br>luke<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Just curious, what is your basis for this conclusion?</div><div> </div><blockquote class=ecxgmail_quote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div dir=ltr><br><hr>Subject: Re: [html5] Appropriate markup for index documents<br>From: <a href="mailto:andrew.croce@gmail.com" target=_blank>andrew.croce@gmail.com</a><br>Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 12:07:48 -0500<br>CC: <a href="mailto:help@whatwg.org" target=_blank>help@whatwg.org</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:binderbound@hotmail.com" target=_blank>binderbound@hotmail.com</a><br><br><div>So what I was considering is something like a catalog…</div><div><br></div><div><index> <!— What element should this be? —></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><header></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><h1>Catalog of Items</h1></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><p>A description of the catalog...</p></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span></header></div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><nav>{some filters, perhaps}</nav></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><ol></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><li>Catalogued item #1</li></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><li>Catalogued item #2</li></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><li>Catalogued item #3</li></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span>...</div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span></ol></div><div><br></div><div></index></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I suppose you could possibly argue that a <dl> might satisfy the semantics, though it wouldn’t really be a definition LIST, just sort of a highly abstracted definition… a stretch, I think. Also, its not clear how sectioning algorithms would handle the scope of a headings, for instance, in the context of a <dl>.</div><div><br></div><div><dl></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><dt></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><header></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><h1>Catalog of Items</h1></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><p>A description of the catalog...</p></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span></header></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><nav>{some filters, perhaps}</nav></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span></dt></div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><dd></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><ol></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><li>Catalogued item #1</li></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><li>Catalogued item #2</li></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span><li>Catalogued item #3</li></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span>...</div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span></ol></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;"> </span></dd></div><div></dl></div><div><br></div><div>Andrew</div><br><div><blockquote><div>On Dec 24, 2014, at 3:26 AM, Not Telling <<a href="mailto:binderbound@hotmail.com" target=_blank>binderbound@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir=ltr style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;">Misspelt help<br><br><hr>From:<span> </span><a href="mailto:binderbound@hotmail.com" target=_blank>binderbound@hotmail.com</a><br>To:<span> </span><a href="mailto:andrew.croce@gmail.com" target=_blank>andrew.croce@gmail.com</a><br>CC:<span> </span><a href="mailto:hep@whatwg.org" target=_blank>hep@whatwg.org</a><br>Subject: RE: [html5] Appropriate markup for index documents<br>Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 19:23:42 +1100<br><br><div dir=ltr>Hi Andrew<br>I believe a description list <dl> (previously definition list) would be the closest fit to what you describe. It has two accepted child elements - definition term <dt> to declare the term being defined and definition description <dd> which describes the term it follows. The page you describe would be the <dt> and a description od the page, or another sub-index for that term would fit under <dd>. Nesting gives you some degree of "sectioning" but not exactly in the way you want, I expect. Could you give a specific example of the usage you are talking about? Use invented elements if you want - I'm just unsure exactly what you mean.<br><br>Luke<br><br><hr>From:<span> </span><a href="mailto:andrew.croce@gmail.com" target=_blank>andrew.croce@gmail.com</a><br>Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 11:14:37 -0500<br>To:<span> </span><a href="mailto:help@whatwg.org" target=_blank>help@whatwg.org</a><br>Subject: [html5] Appropriate markup for index documents<br><br><div dir=ltr>I have been wondering about this for a while now, and I've finally gotten around to writing up the question: <div><br></div><div>What is the appropriate semantic container element (if any) for an index document?<div><br></div><div>It seems to me that there is a gap in the semantic options for marking up index, or list, pages. Now, to be clear I realize there are list elements, but these are strictly for marking up the specific set of listed items. However, a list may have a larger context, which I am calling an index.</div><div><br></div><div>Like an article, an index might have a header and footer, and should probably contain a <ul> or <ol> where the items are listed. What comes to mind is something like a catalog, where the list itself has some meta information, and could itself contain sections or navigation. An <article> seems inappropriate since that should, I believe, be a single piece of content. A <section> also seems inappropriate in itself, unless its part of an even larger context. It could just be a <div>, or nothing at all, but I feel like there is some semantic value being missed.</div><div><br></div><div>So then, why is there no <index> element? I would be super curious to hear everyone's thoughts on this.<span class=ecxHOEnZb><font color="#888888"><br clear=all><div><br></div>--<span> </span><br><div>Andrew Croce<br><a href="mailto:andrew.croce@gmail.com" target=_blank>andrew.croce@gmail.com</a><br><a href="http://andrewcroce.com/" target=_blank>andrewcroce.com</a><br><a target=_blank>732.995.0590</a></div></font></span></div></div></div><span class=ecxHOEnZb><font color="#888888"><br>_______________________________________________ Help mailing list<span> </span><a href="mailto:Help@lists.whatwg.org" target=_blank>Help@lists.whatwg.org</a><a href="http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org" target=_blank>http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/help-whatwg.org</a></font></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br> </div></div>
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