<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV>I do fully understand the points you make below, but I am not sure I fully subscribe to the logic.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><embed> is in HTML5 specifically for plugins.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">However, for <embed>, <object>, <iframe>, and <video>, the spec doesn't</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">require that UAs implement the features using plugins or using native</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">code. For example, Mozilla natively supports SVG in <embed> (it doesn't</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">require a plugin). Similarly, you could see <video> be implemented as a</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">special-case plugin. That's an implementation detail and doesn't really</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">affect the spec.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I think we have then arrived at tags-for-everything.</DIV><DIV>(<img><video><audio><embed><iframe> cover everything do they not?)</DIV><DIV>However, I think if <object> is so widely derided by everyone, than I think it needs to be depreciated sooner rather than later.</DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On 20 Mar 2007, at 09:25, Ian Hickson wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco">Similarly, for backwards-compatibility reasons, adding anything to<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco"><object> is a nightmare. We'd have to carefully examine every addition to<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco">make sure it didn't clash with existing content, for instance.</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 10.0px Monaco; min-height: 14.0px"><BR></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco">Furthermore, overloading an element with various APIs results in<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco">difficulties for authors. An author dealing with audio doesn't want to<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco">think about aspect ratios, and an author dealing with video doesn't want<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco">to think about plugin parameters.</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 10.0px Monaco; min-height: 14.0px"><BR></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco">This doesn't mean we have to specify everything as its own element. There<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco">are media types that it doesn't make sense to support with a specific<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco">element (at least not yet); we don't want to have six dozen elements with<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco">each type having its own set of features (and bugs). We _do_ have a<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco">generic element, <object>, which does work for generic inclusion. It<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco">doesn't support media-specific features (like the Video API) but it works<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco">as a stop-gap until the media in question is important enough to deserve<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Monaco" size="2" style="font: 10.0px Monaco">special treatment, if that happens.</FONT></P> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV></BODY></HTML>