<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Apr 3, 2007, at 2:13 PM, L. David Baron wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On Tuesday 2007-04-03 11:52 -0700, Dave Singer wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Surely people have comments or questions on other aspects of our<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">proposal?<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>There is new stuff, new ideas, and open areas, all ripe<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">for discussion....we have engineers standing by, eager to refine and<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">improve the video tag design itself...</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">If you want more comments, it would be good to include a URL to get</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the proposal (potentially a message in the list archive, if that's</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the best one).<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>I'm not sure where to find it amid the hundreds of</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">messages on the list.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Apple's CSS Timed Media Module proposal - <A href="http://webkit.org/specs/Timed_Media_CSS.html">http://webkit.org/specs/Timed_Media_CSS.html</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Apple's HTML Timed Media Elements proposal - <A href="http://webkit.org/specs/HTML_Timed_Media_Elements.html">http://webkit.org/specs/HTML_Timed_Media_Elements.html</A></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I'm including Maciej's original message regarding Apple's proposals below for reference.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>A number of the ideas from Apple's HTML proposal have already been incorporated into the current working draft of Web Applications 1.0. <<A href="http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/">http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/</A>>, naturally.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>- Kevin<BR><DIV><BR><DIV>Begin forwarded message:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><B>From: </B>Maciej Stachowiak <<A href="mailto:mjs@apple.com">mjs@apple.com</A>></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><B>Date: </B>March 21, 2007 5:08:26 PM PDT</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><B>To: </B>"<A href="mailto:whatwg@whatwg.org">whatwg@whatwg.org</A> List" <<A href="mailto:whatwg@whatwg.org">whatwg@whatwg.org</A>></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><B>Subject: </B><B>[whatwg] Apple Proposal for Timed Media Elements</B></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hello WHAT Working Group,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">With the recent discussions about the <video> element, we've decided to post our own proposal in this area. This proposal is a joint effort from the Safari/WebKit team and some of Apple's top timed media experts, who have experience with QuickTime and other media technologies.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">A number of Apple Engineers will follow and participate in further <video> discussions, including myself and my colleague Dave Singer, who has represented Apple in a number of media-related standards groups.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">We started work on these documents before the <video> element was added to the spec and indeed before Opera made their original proposal. But in the interests of getting them out quickly, we decided to publish what we have, rather than revising the documents to be relative to the current spec. This document is still a work in progress, and I hope together we can refine it and fold it into the Web Apps 1.0 spec.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">There are a few areas of difference worth highlighting:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- Our proposal includes a CSS module, which we will eventually submit to the CSS Working Group. We believe that many aspects of controlling timed media are presentational, and so are best represented in CSS. Although Web Apps 1.0 is not the final destination for this document, we think it makes more sense to consider the whole design at once.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- We have included a more thorough set of events and properties which we think are needed to build good custom controller UI. In general, we would like to enable not just current web use cases but also somewhat more advanced uses.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- We have included an <audio> element as well as <video>.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- We have included a mechanism for static fallback based on container type and codec, so that it's possible to choose the best video format for a client even if user agent codec support varies.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">We will be starting separate threads on these and other key issues. We've posted our current proposals here:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">CSS Timed Media Module proposal - <A href="http://webkit.org/specs/Timed_Media_CSS.html">http://webkit.org/specs/Timed_Media_CSS.html</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">HTML Timed Media Elements - <A href="http://webkit.org/specs/HTML_Timed_Media_Elements.html">http://webkit.org/specs/HTML_Timed_Media_Elements.html</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">We also have a list of areas where we think the proposal could use refinement or additional features, but where we do not yet have a final design to present:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://webkit.org/specs/Timed_Media_Elements-Open_Issues.html">http://webkit.org/specs/Timed_Media_Elements-Open_Issues.html</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Regards,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Maciej Stachowiak</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR style=""></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV></BODY></HTML>