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Hello,<br>
<br>
I don't want to go too far off topic here, but I'll respond to the
points as I do think it illustrates one of the uses of entities
(localization)--which would apply to some degree in XHTML (at least for
entities) as well as in XML.<br>
<br>
Kristof Zelechovski wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:B1D395473EFE485B9BF2ED3F625928FF@POCZTOWIEC"
type="cite">
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US">Using
entities in XSL to
share code was my mistake once too; it is similar to using data members
not
wrapped in properties in data types. XSL itself provides a better
structured approach for code reuse.</span></font></p>
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</blockquote>
Unless you're talking about variables, I guess I'd need elaboration,
but I don't want to go too far off track on list here...<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:B1D395473EFE485B9BF2ED3F625928FF@POCZTOWIEC"
type="cite">
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US">Being
able to use
localized programming language constructs is at the same time trivial
(replace
this with that), </span></font></p>
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</blockquote>
I think that depends on how familiar the script and language is to you
(cognates help many non-English Europeans, whereas the same does not
apply elsewhere). To take some of my wife's family younger cousins, for
example, who are
not particularly educated yet who use computers as many Chinese do,
they found it much easier to get a grasp of this "Chinese XHTML" than
the English one, even though they had had some previous English
instruction. I think actual research would need to be done on this,
since it is well possible that only programmer types make it past the
barrier to entry, and then, they may be even more inclined to dismiss
the benefits for others less skilled; i.e., "I did it, so others
should", or they want to get away from their linguistic background
distinctiveness, or have perhaps irrational fears that this would lead
to their people being satisfied with lower standards, etc. (just as
many oppose bilingual education even while it may even help transition
students to the mainstream language).<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:B1D395473EFE485B9BF2ED3F625928FF@POCZTOWIEC"
type="cite">
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US">expensive
(you have to translate the documentation) </span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Not sure what you mean by cost of translating the documentation. Cost
for whom? If your audience is intended for that audience--e.g., Chinese
code at a Chinese website--who needs to translate anything? On the
contrary, they avoid the need to translate...<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:B1D395473EFE485B9BF2ED3F625928FF@POCZTOWIEC"
type="cite">
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US">and
not
that useful (you freeze the language and cut the programmers off from
the
recent developments in the language). </span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
I don't think it would be that hard to update the translating
template--it's not that difficult. But I'm definitely not talking about
relying on this anyways. There are big advantages to having a common
language as far as the ability to learn from others' code from people
around the world, etc. But just as I replied to someone on another list
who said this was not "semantic", this is very much semantic to those
for whom it is their native language--perhaps even more in the spirit
of pure XML (though Babelizing semantics even further, no doubt, if
people actually starting using this on a large scale, as search engines
would have to be aware of either the post-transformation result or the
localized XML, etc.).<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:B1D395473EFE485B9BF2ED3F625928FF@POCZTOWIEC"
type="cite">
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US">Languages
tend to use English
keywords regardless of the culture of their designer because:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -18pt;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><font
size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US"><span
style="">1.<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">
</span></font></span></span></font><!--[endif]--><font size="2"
color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US">no
matter how deep you go, there is always a place where you have
to switch to English in order to refer to some precedent technology,</span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Yes, like in my use of <?xml-stylesheet?> (though no doubt
browsers could be fairly trivially programmed to recognize localized
processing instructions, as well). Anyways, again, I'm in favor of a
common language, and would even hope very much that countries around
the world could democratically agree on an official standard (including
possibly English, which if its use is as widespread and popular as its
proponents believe, should have little problem obtaining a democratic
majority) so that children will everywhere begin earlier to have access
to such a common language. Nevertheless, if you're a beginner, having
to deal with one line of English is a lot easier than having to deal
with a whole syntax in English, if that's not your native language. I
think the fact that a number of open source projects I've encountered
still have not only comments but also even variables in the
programmer's original language is evidence that there is some desire
for convenient localization. If you have tools that translate it before
serving the code, it is still available anyways.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:B1D395473EFE485B9BF2ED3F625928FF@POCZTOWIEC"
type="cite">
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -18pt;"><font
size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -18pt;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><font
size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US"><span
style="">2.<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">
</span></font></span></span></font><!--[endif]--><font size="2"
color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US">the
English words/roots used in the language design often have a slightly
different meaning from the English source,</span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Maybe, but it is much easier to learn a few exceptions which are
probably at least related in meaning, than to have to learn something
completely foreign. Would you like to learn an Arabic-script XHTML,
even if there was a one-to-one mapping from your keyboard already? Of
course you could, but you have to admit it would take a little time out
for you, especially if you were not already inclined to do
coding/markup. It's not only a vocabulary issue here, but a script
issue too--moreover, using that script may force you to switch between
your keyboard layouts each time you want to make a document.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:B1D395473EFE485B9BF2ED3F625928FF@POCZTOWIEC"
type="cite">
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -18pt;"><font
size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -18pt;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><font
size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US"><span
style="">3.<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">
</span></font></span></span></font><!--[endif]--><font size="2"
color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US">they
are sufficiently few to be learned easily; it may be harder to
grasp what they actually mean in the particular context.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-US">(Toy
languages for
children make an exception, of course; however, even children tend to
mock them
nowadays.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
While I am also not arguing that it is ideal to perpetually rely on a
crutch, a temporary crutch is not always bad, and there are plenty of
children as well as the many creative adults who might be drawn into
programming if the barrier to entry were lower. I'm not talking about
localizing a complex language here--just something which everyone on
the planet should be able to make without much trouble--a web page. As
I mentioned, I've seen first hand how easily children can get started
on it, and they, as beginners, were not at all dismissive of being able
to use their native language, nor were the adults I spoke with here at
all opposed to the idea (on the contrary, they liked it) unless again
it would become a crutch (though I really think the opposite would be
the case--it could well spark more interest in programming as a whole).<br>
<br>
Given the possibilities for browsers to handle localized XML
natively, for translation to be done automatically (and stylesheets are
cached anyways), and optionally in conjunction with a free, server-side
conversion service, etc., there really wouldn't be much to deter such a
thing from working.\<br>
<br>
Brett<br>
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