<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 2:41 AM, Anne van Kesteren <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:annevk@opera.com">annevk@opera.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im">On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:39:05 +0200, Peter Kasting <<a href="mailto:pkasting@google.com" target="_blank">pkasting@google.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
There is no other reason to put a codec in the spec -- the primary reason to spec a behavior (to document vendor consensus) does not apply. "Some<br>
vendors agreed, and some objected violently" is not "consensus".<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
The "vendor consensus" line of argument seems like a very dangerous slippery slope. It would mean that whenever a vendor refuses to implement something it has to be taken out of the specification. I.e. giving a single vendor veto power over the documentation of the Web Platform. Not good at all in my opinion.<br>
<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#888888"></font></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I am merely echoing Hixie; from his original email in this thread:</div><div><br></div></div><blockquote class="webkit-indent-blockquote" style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">> > At the end of the day, the browser vendors have a very effective</span><br><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">> > absolute veto on anything in the browser specs,</span><br>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">></span><br><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">> You mean they have the power to derail a spec?</span><br>
<font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">They have the power to not implement the spec, turning the spec from a</span><br>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">useful description of implementations into a work of fiction.</span><br><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br>
</span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">> That's something I would have considered before the advent of Mozilla</span><br><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">> Firefox.</span><br>
<font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">Mozilla also has the power of veto here. For example, if we required that</span><br>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">the browsers implement H.264, and Mozilla did not, then the spec would be</span><br><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">just as equally fictional as it would be if today we required Theora.</span></blockquote>
<div class="gmail_quote"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></font></div><div class="gmail_quote"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;">My sole goal was to try and point out that the situation with codecs is not equivalent to past cases where vendors merely _hadn't implemented_ part of the spec; in this case vendors have _actively refused_ to implement support for various codecs (Apple with Theora and Mozilla(/Opera?) with H.264).</span></font></div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></font></div><div class="gmail_quote"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;">PK</span></font></div>