[whatwg] about rich internat applications
Frank Krul
Frank.Krul at morganstanley.com
Wed Jun 9 06:28:10 PDT 2004
Brad Neuberg wrote:
> I am a JSP programmer so I know this is possible in JSP (you can
> intercept the HTTP response in a standard way and change things), but
> I'm not sure if it is possible in other popular environments in a
> standard way (PHP, Perl, ASP/ASP.Net, etc.). Also, remember that
> there would be an adoption curve on the server side as well; would web
> hosting providers install these convertors? If things are done on the
> client side then the server-side doesn't need to change.
>
The real question definitely concerns the possibility of adoption; what
would be easier for Microsoft, the Open Source Apache groups and Cold
Fusion stakeholders to implement? Microsoft could add a .net-type of
DLL or plug-in. Alliare could extend the CFML language, and Apache is
easy enough to add a lib to to extend it's core services to emulate the
Filters introduced in the Servlet 2.3 API (as Brad suggests) without
having a JSP container installed. And there is value there since the
current filter spec allows us to not only apply XSLT, byte tokenizing
and trigger resource access events, but also modify binary streams
received from the servers. Powerful stuff. But would these Web daemon
and app server companies and platforms actually support it? One is
aloof enough to let it's browser stagnate (Microsoft) and isn't very
receptive to any competing technology, one values its' proprietary
language (Allaire), and I see the only crowd attempting it would be
Apache, and they already have the servlet spec in the Tomcat products.
Heck, I've even seen people using ANT as a real-time XML serialization
tool that can filter content output as well (Tridion does this in a CMS
product).
The alternative for them is to let the browser adoption force change
when the client side has this built-in. If the developers on this group
do get these technologies into the browser, and they become valuable
(and that doesn't mean ubiquitous in usage among the Web developers per
se, just exciting enough to generate buzz), then support among these Web
and App companies would be looked into. Then we get into trickle up
theory, companies like Macromedia add tag support in Dreamweaver, and
then the big browsers are actually forced to commit and play in the new
sandbox.
> To summarize, these three metrics are Reliability, Ease of Programmer
> Use, and Performance. The reason I brought these up in a discussion
> of whether to put the emulation layer on the client or server sides is
> because if we can't achieve these three important metrics on the
> client side then we may have to do it on the server-side.
>
There are (arguably) a lot of technologies that are easy to use and
perform well,that have never made it....what ever happened to Netscape's
LiveWire? The most important metric is demographic majority. From a
business perspective, none of our fortune 500 bosses are going to let us
touch a technology with little market penetration. It's a sad fact of
life that most companies are still parsing for browser type as N4.7+ and
IE5.0+ only. Thankfully, Mozilla and Opera are gaining ground...but
will I be able to persuade my stakeholders that this is a technology we
should put a resource to? If it's in the best browsers, then it will
have a better chance than having an open-source plug-in server
architecture making the rounds.
Frank Krul
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