[whatwg] Menus, fallback, and backwards compatibility: ideas wanted
ian at hixie.ch
Fri Dec 30 16:51:05 PST 2005
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
> > It's less abstract as far as the authors are concerned, because to
> > them there is a direct relationship between the document.write() and
> > what they see on their screen, as opposed to an indirect one that
> > depends on the UA implementor's idea of navigation.
> Yes! I think that's the point, that's why I skipped quotation of most
> text above this.
> "Draw it by hand in the viewport" or "Let the browser show it to the
> user". It's the same old story. Authors tend to describe every aspect of
> visualization in their CSS. Why? Because different browsers have
> different default rules, and the author wants the page to look the same
> in all browsers. The author wants it so much that he would never trust
> the browser to draw a menu without having full control about the fonts,
> colors, sizes etc. And it would miss the entire point of having a site's
> menu integrated into the browser's UI: the browser should show the
> site's menu items just like it shows its own menu items, so they seem
> intergrated. The browser's menu isn't an extension of the viewport.
It isn't clear to me that it is either possible or desirable to
standardise a navigation mechanism for Web pages.
That isn't to say that we'll be removing the possibility to annotate link
relationships in HTML5 -- quite the opposite. But I don't see what we can
do in the spec that would improve matters for the user. Current
implementations of browser-hosted site navigation are terrible (and I say
this as someone who has been heavily involved in their development over
the years). Until this problem is solved, I don't see any point in
requiring UAs to implement such a mechanism (especially since UAs would
just ignore the requirement anyway, making a farce of the specification).
Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
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