[whatwg] Re: About XHTML 2.0

R.J.Koppes rikkert at rikkertkoppes.com
Thu Jun 2 04:20:52 PDT 2005

I too think <hr> carries semantics, although the tagname implies it's fot
presentaional use.
things like <divider> or <seperator> sound more reasonable I think

I my opinion <hr> is a divider of content, it makes the content before and
after less bound than without. Speechbrowsers might pause here a little
longer, or play a tune like the ones you hear on the radio, seperating news

I tend to put it between navigation and content, and between content and
some legal stuff at the bottom of the page. Since the seperation is in many
cases already evident, I often hide them, but in textbrowsers such as lynx,
I think it's function is quite clear.

When viewing for example my page without styles applied, I think the use of
<hr> makes sense.

Rikkert Koppes

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mikko Rantalainen" <mikko.rantalainen at peda.net>
To: <whatwg at whatwg.org>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [whatwg] Re: About XHTML 2.0

> Ian Hickson wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 May 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
> >
> >>Why doens't SECTION suffice? They are sections separated by decoration.
> >>At least, that is how it appeals to me.
> >
> > They're not really sections. The chapter is the section, these are
> > paragraphs together in the same chapter, with a divider between some of
> > the paragraphs.
> >
> > I read a lot of fiction books and when I come across a "* * *" it reads
> > me like a paragraph, saying "Meanwhile, in a different part of the
> > universe:"; it doesn't read as "end section. new section:".
> I read the "* * *" part exactly the same way. And I consider your
> quoted text to be the header for that sub-section even though it's
> omitted from the output. I feel that the correct markup to use would be
> <section><!-- chapter starts here -->
> <h>Yet another chapter</h>
> <section><!-- 1st point of view, really a subsection -->
> <h class="undisclosed">In the Jack's basement</h>
> ...
> </section>
> <section><!-- presentation adds "* * *" here -->
> <h class="undisclosed">Meanwhile in the Bill's room</h>
> ...
> </section>
> </section><!-- chapter ends here -->
> In my opinion, this is the correct sematics for the content. To
> increase excitement for the reader, some of the content is hidden
> during the presentation. If you feel that hiding the information is
> part of the semantics in this case (arguably that may be true), just
> drop all the <h> elements with class "undisclosed" above.
> I think this is an example of why an <h> element shouldn't be
> required inside a <section> element.
> > To put it another way, sections are things that you can put a title to.
> > There's no title you can put to a group of paragraphs separated from
> > groups of paragraphs in the same chapter of a work of fiction, in my
> > experience. It's just the same chapter, with the narrative exploring
> > different characters or scenes.
> I think you can always put a title to a group of paragrahps. It's
> just that sometimes (often?) you decide to leave it out for brevity
> / clarity / excitement / whatever.
> --
> Mikko

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