[whatwg] <h1> to <h6> in <body>
ian at hixie.ch
Thu Mar 31 04:35:49 PST 2005
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005, Matthew Thomas wrote:
> First, I don't understand why section 2.4 of the Web Apps spec exists --
> or sections 2.3, 2.5, 2.6.2, or 2.7. None of these seem to have nothing
> to do with "eas[ing] the authoring of Web-based applications", or even
> anything to do with Web-based applications at all. They would make more
> sense in a separate HTML Semantic Redefinitions spec.
For various technical and political reasons, Web Apps 1.0 has basically
become HTML5. For other reasons, mainly political, I haven't updated the
title of the spec, the abtract, or the requirements to reflect this yet.
Apologies for not making this clear.
> Ian Hickson wrote:
> > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Brad Fults wrote:
> > >
> > > Firstly, I don't think a paragraph preceding a section header should
> > > be associated with that section. For instance, if one puts a
> > > commentary before a book (and thus before Chapter 1), the commentary
> > > isn't meant to be part of Chapter 1.
> > So what would it be associated with?
> The document as a whole.
> > (And wouldn't the first header in a book be the book's title, which it
> > _would_ make sense for the paragraph to be associated with?)
> The first header, sure, but that wouldn't be an <h1>, that would be a
> <title>. If you're putting an entire book in one HTML file, you're not
> optimizing for Web access, so you can use <title> for the actual title
> rather than for a context-independent title+description+publisher
I strongly feel that the <title> element is _not_ a level above the first
<h1>. The <title> is metadata, a context-free label to be used to describe
the page elsewhere. The (first) <h1> is the main header for the document.
I intend to explicitly state this in the spec.
> > I'm concerned that if we imply a section before the first header, a
> > lot of documents are going to end up with implied first sections that
> > will look silly in outliners.
> Some outliners have root elements, some don't. Some outliners don't even
> allow sections at all, just bulleted/numbered items. I don't know why
> you're trying to design for one particular kind of outliner.
I'm not trying to design "for" a particular kind of outliner. I'm trying
to design the canonical outline of an HTML document. How UAs _present_
this outline (e.g. by only showing the top level, or showing all the
headers at the same level but with multi-level numbering, or whatever) is
a totally separate issue.
There is a big difference between what you propose (associate lead text
with the document) and what I was countering here (associate lead text
with an implied section with no title). Associating lead text with the
document seems fine to me.
> > A lot of documents have things before their main header, if only
> > advertising, introductory paragraphs, or the like.
> Which certainly don't belong to the first chapter.
But they do belong to the document, which is what the first header is a
Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,.
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