[whatwg] Thoughts on Context and Popup Menus for Web Applications 1.0
ian at hixie.ch
Thu Jan 5 17:52:25 PST 2006
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Matthew Raymond wrote:
> Lachlan Hunt wrote:
> > Matthew Raymond wrote:
> > > I have a few suggestions for menus outside the context of a menu
> > > bar. The first is a suggestion for context menus (menus that, in
> > > Windows, show up when you right-click on something). The second is
> > > for popup menus (menus that appear when you click on or activate a
> > > control, et cetera).
> > We should not give authors the power to override the UAs context menu.
> > just creates usability problems.
Agreed. I have added the following to the spec:
# User agents may provide means for bypassing the context menu processing
# model, ensuring that the user can always access the UA's default context
# menus. For example, the user agent could handle right-clicks that have
# the Shift key depressed in such a way that it does not fire the
# contextmenu event and instead always shows the default context menu.
> I know what you mean. I remember using a company website where you
> couldn't paste into a text field for a search because the webmaster had
> apparently decided that the clipboard was the work of the devil.
> > Thankfully, descent browsers now prevent authors blocking/overriding
> > the context menu, let's not make it easier for them.
> Who's to say the UA couldn't just append the menu to the context menu?
> Or append the browser context menu as a submenu? Or provide a context
> button as part of the control?
Good idea. Added:
# The user agent may also provide access to its default context menu, if
# any, with the context menu shown. For example, it could merge the menu
# items from the two menus together, or provide the page's context menu as
# a submenu of the default menu.
> Or allow access to the context menu when an additional key is pressed
> (such as alt + [right-click])?
> The UA vendors aren't stupid. Let's provide a semantic and let them
> figure the behavior out for themselves.
In general it takes a few versions with users complaining before the UAs
get the right balance, but sure. :-)
> > I'm not objecting to having elements specifically for menus, as long
> > as their names are semantic (unlike <popup> which also suggests its
> > presentation), I object to the method you have proposed for accessing
> > the menu. The method should not be defined like that, but should be
> > left to UA and the presentation (CSS) and sometimes behavour
> Then simply change "popup" to "menu". Simple enough. I'm not married to
> the word "popup"; I'm simply trying to distinguish it from a context
Currently I have used the words "popup" and "toolbar" (on the type=""
attribute of the <menu> element, because they were the only words I could
find that were easy to type and understand.
I'm open to better ideas, though.
> > > The deal breaker for me, though, is that you can't tell what the
> > > hyperlink does just by looking at it. For instance, what does the
> > > following do?...
> > >
> > > | <a href="#guess">Does this point to a menu?</a>
I agree. I've removed this feature from the spec. It was stupid.
> > > Now, figure out what this does:
> > >
> > > | <button popup="obvious">This displays a popup menu.</button>
> > That will only display a popup for visual UAs, which is why I object
> > to the name popup for the attribute and element. In UAs that don't
> > support popups, the text is meaningless. It provides no information
> > about its purpose or what information can be accessed by activating
> > it.
> Are you honestly trying to tell me that you don't think popup menus can
> be done in text mode?!? How is it we can do menus in text mode but not
> popups? Remember that by "popup", I mean a method of accessing a menu by
> activating or clicking on a control. If you don't like the name "popup"
> then fine, but I don't see while the underlying principle of activating
> a menu with a button or other control is impossible in text mode UAs.
Yeah, I don't really understand here. Popup menus in text mode have been
possible for decades...
Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
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