[whatwg] Presentational elements in Web Applications 1.0

[James Graham]

Eugene T.S. Wong wrote:

>> Less markup? How? Because you could write <big> rather than <div> and 
>> a style deceleration?
> 
> No, so you could write <CENTER> instead of <DIV CLASS="foo"> plus the 
> modifications in your style sheet. That's hardly any savings, but it is 
> cleaner code.

Substitute <big> for the more relevant <center> and my argument still 
holds. The code may have superficially cleaner syntax but you're mixing 
device-specific presentation with device-independent sematics, thereby 
creating a situation which is more complex conceptually.

>> I certainly disagree with Ian that /all/ non-semantic markup should be 
>> ditched
> 
> Okay.
> 
> Which Ian? I thought that I saw 2 "Ian"s.

Ian Hickson.

>> If you use <center> or <big> to markup headings, text that is often 
>> both large and centered, it prevents me from creating a useful 
>> navigational outline of your page.
> 
> I don't think that I once encouraged the use of <BIG> to markup 
> headings. I'm opposed to it. I'm also opposed to using <CENTER> to 
> markup headings. I'm very surprised that you said this. Maybe this is 
> getting to personal. People obviously aren't listening.

You did, in fact, use <center> to markup a heading yourself, elsewhere 
in the thread (though, from your next message perhaps you have changed 
you mind about this now). I would also expect this paradigm to be pretty 
common on that part of the real web that still clings to HTML3.2 (but 
it's not like I have actual data or anything).