[whatwg] HTML 5, OGG, competition, civil rights, and persons with disabilities

Dave Singer singer at apple.com
Tue Dec 11 16:14:39 PST 2007

At 19:07  -0500 11/12/07, Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) wrote:
>Well, consensus is going to be hard to find, with the conflicts of interest at
>play here.

Yes, I agree that consensus will be hard.  I have 
spent quite some effort so far and I see quite a 
bit more to come.  I don't think there is much 
conflict of interest at play here (in the classic 
sense), just conflict of perception and preferred 

>  And all that we want is that Ogg Vorbis and Ogg Theora, being the
>ideal balance between least-encumbered and technically sufficient options, be
>mentioned in the document that will be read by millions -- even if it wasn't
>a SHOULD but a MAY or an ITWOULDBENICE.  They more than deserve it.

That is still a possibility.

>So, here's a challenge.  Does Apple really *only* want to be able to claim
>SHOULD conformance?

No, we went with the consensus opinion at the 
HTML meeting that MUST would be better, if it can 
be achieved.

>Reinstate the paragraph and put MAY instead of SHOULD,
>then go crazy authoring H.264 content for the VIDEO tag.  That resolution
>lets you have SHOULD conformance.  If you refuse, we know that it's a market
>and monopoly thing.  If you accept, we know you were being straightforward
>all along.

Most of us are less than satisfied with SHOULD, 
and MAY is in the opposite direction to that 

>El Mar 11 Dic 2007, Dave Singer escribió:
>>  At 13:45  -0500 11/12/07, Fernando wrote:
>>  >Please reconsider the decision to exclude the recommendation of the
>>  Theora/OGG Vorbis codec in HTML 5 guidelines.
>>  This entire discussion is founded on a major misapprehension:  that
>>  there has been a decision, and that decision was to exclude.  This is
>>  simply not true;  there is no decision either to include or exclude.
>>  There is a recognition that work is needed.
>>  I and others have spent a great deal of time on this problem already,
>>  working with a number of people, including the W3C staff.  Many of us
>>  -- maybe all of us -- agree we need to find a solution that enables
>>  broad interoperability and is in accord with w3c and web practices.
>>  We have not yet reached consensus on having found it.  That's all.
>	Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) <rudd-o at rudd-o.com>
>	Rudd-O.com - http://rudd-o.com/
>	GPG key ID 0xC8D28B92 at http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
>The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power.
>		-- William Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar"
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David Singer

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