[whatwg] several messages about discouraged things

Ian Hickson ian at hixie.ch
Mon Jun 18 21:16:20 PDT 2007

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007, Keryx Web wrote:
> Speaking from __my__ experience, and the experience of those (too few) 
> colleagues that I've met in Sweden who teach standards based web 
> development, it is hard too make the student understand that something 
> is wrong if he/she "get's away with it".


> I would like the spec to clearly state what is allowed for backwards 
> compatibility only and what is the preferred way of marking up content.

The spec doesn't allow anything purely for backwards compatibility.

> I would like a spec that clearly says that some ways of marking up 
> content is detrimental to accessibility and perhaps also usability. E.g. 
> frames, including the iframe, or tables used for layout. You would not 
> believe how many colleagues of mine who actually teach that frames are a 
> good thing. My nephew, who studies i a nearby city, even had frames as a 
> required feature of his work!

Frames are out (except <iframe>, which I don't really see as being a 
problem, though let me know if I'm wrong on this). Tables for layout are 
non-conforming, though I hope to make this clearer in due course. I've 
added a note to myself in the spec to remind myself of this.

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007, Keryx Web wrote:
> A few examples that I think is bad practice (99.9 % of the time it's used):
> - Inline styles

The media-specific evils of style="", if it is allowed at all, will indeed 
be called out explicitly.

> - Empty p-elements, or p elements containing only  

The former will be allowed, as there are valid use cases (usually 
involving script). I'd like to ban the latter, but I'm not sure how to do 
it. Any suggestions?

> - A table within a table cell (Has this ever been used for anything but 
> layout?)

There are valid uses of that, though they are rare. But layout tables in 
general will be discouraged (and are non-conforming).

> - Iframes

Why are they bad?

Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

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