[whatwg] reversed lists
Ian Hickson
ian at hixie.ch
Thu Aug 21 02:01:15 PDT 2008
On Tue, 26 Feb 2008, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote:
>
> As noted by Jonas Sicking, reverse-ordered lists will require a browser
> to read the entire list in before numbering, or else update on the fly
> (not acceptable). However, as Ian notes, this isn't a problem with
> variable-width tables. We accept that certain classes of tables can't
> be displayed until the entire thing has been read and computed, and we
> will just have to accept that with reverse-ordered lists as well.
>
> The exception would be if we adopted the rule, suggested by Simon
> Pieters, that the start= attribute apply to the first *lexical* element
> in the list, rather than the first *ordinal* element. This would allow
> browsers to render reversed lists immediately when it is present. I
> like this compromise.
This is basically what the spec does now, I think.
> > ::stuff about step= attribute::
>
> I can't think of any use cases for a step= attribute currently, at least
> none that wouldn't be served best by *arbitrary* number generation.
> Frex, numbering a list with the successive squares or primes. While
> fancy, these are just cute tricks, and not actually generally useful as
> far as I can tell. The same would be true for the step= attribute.
Agreed; step="" doesn't seem necessary yet.
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008, Christoph Päper wrote:
> Ian Hickson schrieb:
> > On Fri, 25 Jan 2008, Christoph P�per wrote:
> > >
> > > I think it has been shown, that the meta attribute |reverse| would
> > > not work in HTML, it would have to be a "command" attribute, i.e. it
> > > doesn't describe the ordering of the following list items, but their
> > > indended display. This would make it presentational and thereby not
> > > suitable for HTML. It would belong into CSS, but that isn't very
> > > good at reordering boxes.
> >
> > I don't really follow. What's wrong with how the spec works now?
>
> Without rereading or much rethinking the thread, the current spec is
> right in that |reversed| describes the actual order of |li|s -- which
> is, what markup should do --, but this doesn't degrade well and it's not
> incremental, because you need to know the number of |ol|'s children
> (which you could hardcode with |start|) in advance to number the first
> item. Therefore someone proposed a command-like |reverse| (no
> participle) attribute that would keep the numbers, but reorder the |li|s
> with them, which is backwards-compatible, but works just as bad for
> incremental rendering (though in a different way) and is not very
> markupish and -- if at all -- should be done on the styling level.
>
> Logical markup order Presentational markup order
>
> <ol><!--spec, compat--> <ol><!--messy-->
> <li>First 1. First <li>Third 1. Third
> <li>Second 2. Second <li>Second 2. Second
> <li>Third 3. Third <li>First 3. First
> </ol> </ol>
>
> <ol reversed><!--messy--> <ol reversed><!--spec-->
> <li>First 3. First <li>Third 3. Third
> <li>Second 2. Second <li>Second 2. Second
> <li>Third 1. Third <li>First 1. First
> </ol> </ol>
>
> <ol reverse><!--a proposal--> <ol reverse><!--messy-->
> <li>First 3. Third <li>Third 3. First
> <li>Second 2. Second <li>Second 2. Second
> <li>Third 1. First <li>First 1. Third
> </ol> </ol>
Reversing the rendered order seems like it would cause more trouble than
reversing the numbers, so I think we should stick with what we have now.
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
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