[whatwg] <input placeholder="">
ian at hixie.ch
Tue Dec 2 02:44:11 PST 2008
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008, Ojan Vafai wrote:
> This is a useful property on any text input element. Seems like it
> should apply to textareas as well as contentEditable elements and
> iframes with designMode on. I can point to real-world examples of the
> latter if need be. I think it's acceptable that it be a plain-text
> string in all cases, but that it ought to also be CSS styleable. I don't
> know if html5 is the right place to spec that. WebKit currently uses the
I think for contentEditable it's definitely not something we want to
support natively; I've no idea how that would even work. I'd recommend
doing it in CSS, using generated content based on the title="" attribute
or some such.
For <textarea>, a placeholder value seems odd. Do you have examples of
people doing that?
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
> I was asking, obviously, what use is a default value if you can't edit
> it. If an enabled text field had a displayed value= but the value was
> not actually editable, that would be unpleasantly surprising.
> That problem applies just as much to <input placeholder="foo"> as it
> would have done to <input value="foo" clearonfocus>: depending on
> whether the placeholder text is greyed out, it would make the field
> either look like it has a value when it actually doesn't, or look
> disabled when it actually isn't. It would also hide the label or hint
> for the field for *precisely* the period when you need it most. I'm not
> aware of any possible presentation that avoids both (or even one of!)
> those problems, and previously HTML5 has shied away from expecting
> browsers to implement things that have no known reasonable presentation.
> I appreciate that Web authors currently go to some scripting lengths to
> position labels for text fields inside the fields, and I think it's
> quite appropriate that they should have to go to those lengths, because
> it makes bad design more difficult. I would rather see, as I've
> previously suggested, markup for associating form controls with hints
> outside them in a similar way as labels can be associated now.
I understand your position, but it seems that the industry has moved
towards this as a pretty standard feature of user interfaces now, for
better or worse.
Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
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