[whatwg] ---

[Ian Hickson]

On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, Pentasis wrote:
> 
> Who ever said that the standards are here for browsers?

The HTML5 spec exists for a number of groups, primarily Web authors (and 
people writing tutorials for Web authors), Web browser implementors, tool 
implementors, and validator implementors. Roughly in that order.


> You mention the DOM for example. Good, the DOM is a way of describing 
> how HTML can be implemented in a browser. If you as browser vendors want 
> to describe that and agree upon it amongst yourselves...fine, I would 
> welcome that. But I fail to see why this means you have any right to 
> change HTML itself in the process.

We don't really have a "right" to write HTML anymore than anyone else, but 
in our version of HTML, we're making sure that the rules for browsers are 
defined along with the rules for Web authors. It's part of our effort. 
Making sure the DOM aspects of this are well-defined is a key part of this 
process, so we have phrased HTML5 such that it is actually defined in 
terms of the DOM.


> If you want a standard that describes how browsers or UAs in general 
> must deal with HTML than write THAT standard, but leave HTML out of it 
> please.

HTML5 is, amongst other things, that standard.


On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, Pentasis wrote:
> 
> Like I said, I fully understand that UAs must have a standard construct 
> to be able to deal with markup. But that does by no means mean that they 
> should have control over the markup itself.

Indeed, browser vendors are just one of many groups of people who are 
involved in this effort.


On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, Pentasis wrote:
> 
> The HTML spec consists of several parts. Some of these parts are indeed 
> browsers spcific, like the DOM, the rendering engine, etc. But the other 
> part is pure semantics. It is about marking up content.
> 
> I agree that the first part should be done by UA vendors, but I strongly 
> oppose that the second part is done by them as well. That should be done 
> by linguistics, typographs, and people who have to actually create the 
> content.

Input from everyone is welcome.


> The emphasis of the HTML5 spec (but also the XHTML2 and HTML4) lies on 
> the browser part. I understand, after all that is your job and I am sure 
> you are all very capable of that.

HTML5's emphasis appears to be on the browser part only because that part 
is more complex than other parts. (I can't speak for the other specs, 
though I wouldn't say that they are really browser-emphasised.)


> But please, let the actual markup language itself be defined by others 
> who are more capable of doing that.

We welcome input from everyone.


Incidentally, I'd like to remind everyone that conversations on this list 
have to remain civil and everyone should be treated with respect, 
regardless of their opinions. If people are rude, I will take action.

-- 
Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'