[whatwg] <video><overlay> for captions/subtitles/etc
philipj at opera.com
Sun Nov 29 02:37:53 PST 2009
On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 06:21:45 +0100, Silvia Pfeiffer
<silviapfeiffer1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's great to see further specifications come up around captions. I do
> think we need these to make progress and come to a specification that
> we can all agree on.
> I just wanted to add a comment on your wiki page for clarification:
> fact, it had the exact same purpose as your <ovelay> proposal: to
> eventually be added into the HTML5 specification and be properly
> integrated, such that it didn't have to rely on the timeupdate.
> In fact, the <itextlist>/<itext> proposal, which was my second
> improvement, see
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/HTML5_captions_v2, doesn't look
> very different to what you have there.
Yes, that is very clear, I used it only as an example of what needs to be
anything that makes it sounds like <itext> is something it is not.
> I think you've taken the next step with proposing to add a wrapping
> <div> into the DOM - something I wasn't quite sure would be possible
> and I'm glad you've taken the step.
> Another comment on naming: whether we name the elements <itextlist>
> and <itext> or alternatively <overlay> and <source>, I'm not too
> fussed. In fact, I've discussed the renaming/reuse of <source> for
> <itext> in my recent blog post at
> . I think it may well make a lot of sense since we can reduce the key
> required attributes to the ones that already exist for the <source>
Indeed, my proposal is mainly a remix of <itext> and cue ranges. The main
selling point, though, is a consistent markup and DOM for in-band,
external and script-created subtitles and a hook to content into the
> I am a little hesitant about the user of "overlay": it is a name that
> implies a visual representation. I don't think we should prescribe how
> the <div> needs to be represented. In fact, for a textual audio
> description, I would prefer not to have a screen display and only have
> the screen reader aria-live activated. That is not a overlay any
> longer. I think in the past HTML has tried to separate structure from
> presentation where possible, with CSS being in control of presentation
The name issue and using CSS is one track in the discussion on
public-html-a11y, please do follow up on that.
> Anyway - I am sorry I haven't had the time to reply properly to the
> discussion in the W3C HTML accessibility taskforce yet - I promise
> I'll get to it.
> Incidentally, I think the W3C HTML accessibility taskforce has
> developed into something of a discussion centre for these captions
> issues. If you're a HTML5 member, you might want to join the taskforce
> and subscribe to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/
> . Otherwise, I guess, we'll end up duplicating all the discussion
> there here again.
I assume "you" above is other WHATWG members, not me.
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Philip Jägenstedt <philipj at opera.com>
>> As part of the work in the W3C HTML Accessibility Task Force I have
>> a new <overlay> element to handle several use cases which are currently
>> solved by HTML5 <video>.
>> Certainly we shouldn't be adding this to HTML5 at this point, but I
>> HTML6 and beyond is something the WHATWG should be involved with.
>> Philip Jägenstedt
>> Core Developer
>> Opera Software
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