[whatwg] Some discrepencies and example remarks

[Tab Atkins Jr.]

On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Yuvalik Webdesign
<postmaster at yuvalik.org> wrote:
>> From: Tab Atkins Jr.
>> > Also, a side-bar, what is that, since side-bars are usually
>> separately layed-out and not always directly "around the content".
>>
>> You're interpreting "around" too strictly here.  It means just
>> "nearby" here.  It means exactly what it says - <aside> can be used
>> for marking up the sort of thing that you typically see in a sidebar
>> in magazines.  It is also useful for marking up the traditional
>> "sidebar content" of webpages, where there's a fairly narrow column to
>> the left or right of the main content containing tangential
>> information like blogrolls.
>
> So you are saying that <aside> can be generally used as the smaller columns on pages regardless of their contents, as long as it is somehow related to the page (which obviously it is always)?

Yes.  If it's tangentially related (that is, it can be removed from
the document without affecting the meaning of the document), use
<aside> (unless <nav>, <header>, or <footer> is more appropriate).

>> > C)
>> > When talking about outline (in the context of sectioning) I gather we
>> are NOT talking about the DOM-tree, but about (a Table Of) Contents
>> kind of outline. Does a generic page-header and footer (containing a
>> site-wide logo, style and navigation) belong in such an outline? If
>> not, does this mean it has to be enclosed in a separate SECTION
>> element? Nothing about this is made clear either in wording or
>> examples.
>>
>> The headings that may be contained in <header> belong in the outline,
>> and those are indicated simply by marking them up with <h1>, <h2>,
>> etc.  Don't overthink it.  ^_^
>
> I think you misunderstand my point/question. A "page-header" (or "page-footer") can consist of more than just semantic content and navigation. It can consist of a logo, styling, non-related information (sometimes above this header we have search boxes and login panels, etc. etc). Do these become part of the <header> or is the <header> to become part of a <div> in such cases? Also, if below a header with content we have a styled image (purely for visual means) does this become part of the header or not? Where is the line drawn? See also below.

The non-related stuff should be wrapped in <aside>s, and then can go
inside or outside the <header> - it shouldn't really matter.

Frex, in the header on http://www.igofigure.com (a site I control, but
that is currently HTML4), the two tag lines would be <h1> and <h2> in
an <hgroup>, the nav bar just below would be a <nav>, and everything
else would be <aside>s.  Just for styling convenience, I'd put them
all in the <header>.

> Perhaps a small example, currently I am working on a site where content which is generally regarded as a header, is placed as a sidebar on the lower right of the page. It only contains a logo and a slideshow. Is this a <header> or is this a <div>? I can give you several dozens of those questions.

If it's acting like the site header, then yeah, it should be <header>.
 The slideshow is probably tangential, and would be in an <aside>.

> What I mean is, the spec doesn't give us examples other than those which are obvious, it doesn't give us insight in more complex lay-outs. And once the spec is ready and becomes used by others like me (which maybe less insightfull than you are in the spec since we weren't so closely involved in it) then those designers will be faced with questions the spec has no answers for.

I meant it when I said you were overthinking things.  ^_^  Don't try
too hard; the categories are general and pretty simple.  As well, it's
not really expected that most authors will read the spec, but rather
that they'll read tutorials and examples on the web, which can go more
in depth about particular types of layouts.

~TJ