[whatwg] whatwg Digest, Vol 76, Issue 101
Laurence Gillian
lau at voodoodog.com
Sat Jul 31 12:56:52 PDT 2010
I'm with Boris on this one; Laurie
/L
Sent from my iPhone
On 31 Jul 2010, at 20:08, whatwg-request at lists.whatwg.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags (Boris Zbarsky)
> 2. Re: "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags (Roger H?gensen)
> 3. Re: "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags (Roger H?gensen)
> 4. Re: "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags (Roger H?gensen)
> 5. Re: "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags (Boris Zbarsky)
> 6. Re: "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags (Roger H?gensen)
> 7. Re: "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags (Boris Zbarsky)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:17:44 -0400
> From: Boris Zbarsky <bzbarsky at MIT.EDU>
> To: whatwg at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags
> Message-ID: <4C5387C8.4050203 at mit.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 7/30/10 9:57 PM, Roger H?gensen wrote:
>> <a href="stuff.zip" download>This defaults to application/octet-stream
>> and clicking the link will behave as if the user selected Save As from
>> UI context menu!</a>
>
> I would object to implementing this. I have no problem putting up a
> dialog asking the user whether to save or open in a helper app, but I
> see no reason why I should force saving on the user, as a browser
> developer. If the user wants to open your zip in a zip reader, why
> shouldn't he?
>
> -Boris
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 04:20:06 +0200
> From: Roger H?gensen <rescator at emsai.net>
> To: whatwg at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags
> Message-ID: <4C538856.4090105 at emsai.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 2010-07-31 03:57, Roger H?gensen wrote:
>
> Another example:
>
> <a href="cool.png" download><image src="cool_sm.jpg"></a>
>
> How many here have had that wishful thinking work exactly like you wanted?
> That is the minimal use case, old browsers would behave as currently,
> those supporting this on the other hand would always present an expected
> Save As.
> I'm sure half the websites out there that display a thumbnail image but
> links to a larger or original image would jump at this.
>
> Another minimal example would be:
>
> <image src="cool_sm.jpg"> <a href="cool.png" download>Download the full
> image!</a>
>
> Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Screenreaders (you know, usually for those
> blind folks) would also benefit for this as ther would be no ambiguity
> as to what action should be taken.
> Obviously the two examples about do not make that much sense, but
> imagine if it was the audio example from my other post instead, instead
> of potentially having the browser try and play the audio
> it would instead download it to where the user would prefer (if it all),
> that way one could have a low quality <audio> and a <a href download>
> next to it that let you download the higher quality audio.
>
> --
> Roger "Rescator" H?gensen.
> Freelancer - http://EmSai.net/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 04:27:40 +0200
> From: Roger H?gensen <rescator at emsai.net>
> To: whatwg at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags
> Message-ID: <4C538A1C.1050804 at emsai.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 2010-07-31 04:17, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
>> On 7/30/10 9:57 PM, Roger H?gensen wrote:
>>> <a href="stuff.zip" download>This defaults to application/octet-stream
>>> and clicking the link will behave as if the user selected Save As from
>>> UI context menu!</a>
>>
>> I would object to implementing this. I have no problem putting up a
>> dialog asking the user whether to save or open in a helper app, but I
>> see no reason why I should force saving on the user, as a browser
>> developer. If the user wants to open your zip in a zip reader, why
>> shouldn't he?
>>
>> -Boris
>>
>
> When I say the "Save As" UI I mean the one you get currently, which
> varies, some browsers only provide a Save As and Cancel, while others
> provide Save As with Open and Cancel.
> So based on your remarks, maybe the spec could state that if a browser
> believe it can handle the file type then it should present a Open + Save
> As UI,
> but if it can not handle the filetype (aka handling un-configured or the
> user set the browser's settings this way) then it should just present
> Save As without Open.
>
> So thanks for pointing that out, as I actually have been annoyed in the
> past with how different browsers do downloads UIs, and this time we can
> actually establish expected default UI behavior from the ground up
> (however the user should still be able to alter settings to change the
> default behavior, and ther is nothing preventing a Browser maker from
> enhancing the UI even further.).
>
>
> --
> Roger "Rescator" H?gensen.
> Freelancer - http://EmSai.net/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 04:42:48 +0200
> From: Roger H?gensen <rescator at emsai.net>
> To: whatwg at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags
> Message-ID: <4C538DA8.3050404 at emsai.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> On 2010-07-30 20:54, Eduard Pascual wrote:
>> Let me complement the proposal with a use case:
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3358209/triggering-a-file-download-without-any-server-request
>>
>
> Now something like that is a bit more tricky, but can't Javascript
> actually trigger a proper Save As?
> Something like <a href="#" onclick="*javascript*:
> document.execCommand('Save As','1','saveMe.csv');"><img
> src="./images/*save*.png"></a>
>
> Should in theory work, but I think browser support for that is spotty,
> so the solution to that stackoverflow post either lies in deep
> Javascript vodoo.
> Or make a suggestion to the Javascript "folks" would be better? In any
> case a download attribute would only improve such a functionality (if
> javascript support it) even further by displaying the proper UI.
>
> --
> Roger "Rescator" H?gensen.
> Freelancer - http://EmSai.net/
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:52:06 -0400
> From: Boris Zbarsky <bzbarsky at MIT.EDU>
> To: whatwg at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags
> Message-ID: <4C538FD6.1070908 at mit.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 7/30/10 10:27 PM, Roger H?gensen wrote:
>>> On 7/30/10 9:57 PM, Roger H?gensen wrote:
>>>> <a href="stuff.zip" download>This defaults to application/octet-stream
>>>> and clicking the link will behave as if the user selected Save As from
>>>> UI context menu!</a>
> ....
>
>> When I say the "Save As" UI I mean the one you get currently, which
>> varies, some browsers only provide a Save As and Cancel, while others
>> provide Save As with Open and Cancel.
>
> I can't name a single browser that provides an "Open" option if you
> select "Save As" from the context menu. Can you?
>
>> So based on your remarks, maybe the spec could state that if a browser
>> believe it can handle the file type then it should present a Open + Save
>> As UI,
>> but if it can not handle the filetype (aka handling un-configured or the
>> user set the browser's settings this way) then it should just present
>> Save As without Open.
>
> So you mean the browser should act as if content-disposition:attachment
> were specified? Why not just say that?
>
> -Boris
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 04:59:42 +0200
> From: Roger H?gensen <rescator at emsai.net>
> To: whatwg at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags
> Message-ID: <4C53919E.5010406 at emsai.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 2010-07-31 04:52, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
>>
>>> When I say the "Save As" UI I mean the one you get currently, which
>>> varies, some browsers only provide a Save As and Cancel, while others
>>> provide Save As with Open and Cancel.
>>
>> I can't name a single browser that provides an "Open" option if you
>> select "Save As" from the context menu. Can you?
>
> Not explicitly, but if you click the link for example, but this would
> also allow enhancing the explicit Save As (by letting the browser know
> the filetype more accurately and present My Documents, or My Images etc.
> folder destination if supported by browser obviously)
>
>>
>>> So based on your remarks, maybe the spec could state that if a browser
>>> believe it can handle the file type then it should present a Open + Save
>>> As UI,
>>> but if it can not handle the filetype (aka handling un-configured or the
>>> user set the browser's settings this way) then it should just present
>>> Save As without Open.
>>
>> So you mean the browser should act as if
>> content-disposition:attachment were specified? Why not just say that?
>
> Um. Because this (the topic by the original poster) is about exactly
> that? *smiles*
>
>
> --
> Roger "Rescator" H?gensen.
> Freelancer - http://EmSai.net/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:13:05 -0400
> From: Boris Zbarsky <bzbarsky at MIT.EDU>
> To: whatwg at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags
> Message-ID: <4C5394C1.4000803 at mit.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 7/30/10 10:59 PM, Roger H?gensen wrote:
>> On 2010-07-31 04:52, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
>>>
>>>> When I say the "Save As" UI I mean the one you get currently, which
>>>> varies, some browsers only provide a Save As and Cancel, while others
>>>> provide Save As with Open and Cancel.
>>>
>>> I can't name a single browser that provides an "Open" option if you
>>> select "Save As" from the context menu. Can you?
>>
>> Not explicitly, but if you click the link for example
>
> That's a totally different operation.
>
>>> So you mean the browser should act as if
>>> content-disposition:attachment were specified? Why not just say that?
>>
>> Um. Because this (the topic by the original poster) is about exactly
>> that? *smiles*
>
> Right. I'm fine with the original proposal; just not with the
> modification you suggested to take away user choice about what to do
> with the data.
>
> -Boris
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of whatwg Digest, Vol 76, Issue 101
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