[whatwg] Forms-related feedback
ian at hixie.ch
Mon Sep 23 13:35:25 PDT 2013
On Wed, 21 Aug 2013, TAMURA, Kent wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Ian Hickson <ian at hixie.ch> wrote:
> > On Wed, 9 Jan 2013, TAMURA, Kent wrote:
> > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Ian Hickson <ian at hixie.ch> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2012, TAMURA, Kent wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > * For date, datetime, datetime-local, month, time, week, the
> > > > > attribute returns a string in a field. If a field is
> > > > > text-editable, it should return user-editing string like email
> > > > > and number. If a field has a fixed localized date/time string
> > > > > chosen by a date/time picker, the attribute should return the
> > > > > localized string. [...]
> > > > >
> > > > > - We can enable text field selection APIs for email, number, and
> > > > > other types
> > > >
> > > > How would this work when the control isn't a text control? I don't
> > > > understand. For example, consider a date control that is actually
> > > > three separate text fields (year month day); how do you envisage
> > > > the selection API working and how would rawValue help with this?
> > >
> > > I think it's ok that rawValue doesn't work with form controls
> > > without any text. One of use cases of rawValue would be to handle
> > > user input errors. I think non-text form controls should be clever
> > > enough to avoid bad user input. For example, users can't set bad
> > > values to input[type=range].
> > I still don't understand how this would work. You suggest that it
> > should work for type=date, but how? What happens when it's mutated by
> > script, for instance? I really don't understand the purpose here or
> > how it would work to achieve that purpose.
> As for type=date, rawValue should return what a user see.
What if the user sees a calendar with a date circled? Or the string "your
birthday"? (Exposing that would be a privacy violation.) Or what if the
user doesn't see anything (because it's not a visual UA), but every time
the user focuses it, the user agent plays a tune from one of Vivaldi's
four seasons, followed by a trill to indicate how far into the season the
> Value set by script or not doesn't matter.
I mean, how would the user agent parse the script's new value.
> I saw some questions/requests of a way to get a localized date string in
> crbug.com and stackoverflow.com. One of reasons one wanted to get it
> was that there are no ways for script to get localized date format used
> in type=date. One wanted to get the format to use consistent date format
> in a web page, another wanted to get the format to focus on specific
> field in type=date (Note that a type=date instance in Google Chrome
> contains multiple focus targets.)
Providing localisation is definitely something we should do, but rawValue
isn't a sane way to do it. You don't want to have the "format a date" API
be "create an <input> element, sets its value, and read it back".
> As for type=number, I heard a web author wanted to get invalid value
> typed by a user in order to show friendly error message without HTML
> interactive form validation.
The point of type=number is that the browser can do this, no need to
reimplement it. (If an author does want to reimplement it, Web Components
are presumably the long-term solution: reimplement the widget.)
> > > > On Tue, 11 Sep 2012, TAMURA, Kent wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Yes, I'd like to enable selection API for at least type=email
> > > > > and type=number. All of their existing implementations are text
> > > > > fields. I haven't seen a request to suport selection API for
> > > > > type=email, etc.. However lack of selection API looks a defect
> > > > > to me.
> > > >
> > > > Why does the page need to touch the selection?
> > >
> > > It must be same as input[type=text]. e.g.
> > > - A page author wants to select the whole value or nothing of an
> > > email form control when it gets focus.
> > Why is that a valid thing for a page to be doing? The browser should
> > take care of doing that, not the page. If the page does it, it'll be
> > different on each page and the user will get confused.
> We can't force it. Web authors do what they want.
We can force it. If we don't provide the API, the author can't do it.
> This is an actual case. I talked with him, and he said <datalist>
> didn't work in his case because he wanted to show images on choices.
The demo he gives is:
If people want to reimplement widgets, then we should make sure Web
Components can support their particular widget desires. I don't think it
makes sense for us to make the default widgets be able to support every
weird thing people want to do.
> > > - A user entered an email address with unacceptable domain name.
> > > A page author wants to move the caret to the beginning of the
> > > domain name.
> > How is that possible in the case of a custom e-mail widget where the
> > e-mail address isn't shown, but a user picture and name is shown
> > instead?
> I think rawValue isn't necessary in such UI. However all of existing
> type=email implementation is a text field.
On Wed, 21 Aug 2013, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
> If we start doing this (and other things you proposed) we'll constrain
> future implementation strategies for this control. And other
> implementations might be forced to follow particular conventions in
> order to not break sites. That doesn't seem exactly ideal.
Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
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