<br><div class="gmail_quote">2009/2/9 Smylers <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Smylers@stripey.com">Smylers@stripey.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d">Giovanni Campagna writes:<br>
<br>
> So the whole rendering section is just for implementors and authors<br>
> should act if no default style sheet is present<br>
<br>
</div>No; the section is also for authors, in that it advises them of how<br>
content is expected to be rendered in mainstream graphical browsers.<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> or worse, if it could be everything, like a inline-block <div> or blue<br>
> <table>,<br>
<br>
</div>Indeed it _could_ be anything, but there's no reason for authors to be<br>
worried about that; if a (non-malicious) user-agent does something<br>
different from that expected by HTML 5 then it presumably has done so<br>
intentionally and it wouldn't necessarily benefit users for authors to<br>
attempt to combat it.</blockquote><div>The fact is that could lead to mixtures (part of UA stylesheets and part of author style sheets) caused by the cascade mechanism that cannot integrate themselves.</div><div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
> so that the author should set all supported properties to initial or</blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">> the HTML5 "expected" value?</blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Not necessarily.</blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
> That is: I, author, want consistent rendering on all plaforms and </blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">> browser: </blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
I think that's where you're going wrong. Platforms themselves aren't </blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">consistent -- in things like screen sizes, resolutions, distance between</blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">screen and audience, whether they are interactive, what input devices </blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
are available, pagination.</blockquote><div> </div></div><div>From the same CSS, you cannot get different results in different browsers or platforms (unless the browser are not complying with CSS). Content may be scaled, wrapped, clipped, overflowed, but it will always be the same. A mobile browser should be different than a resized Firefox window. (Actually, IE in Windows Mobile / CE is like IE in Windows XP / Vista, just with a smaller viewport. The same applies for Safari in the iPhone or in Mac OS). In addition, you can have digital pens also in desktop PC, but you expect that your browser renders in the same way.</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><br>
<br>
If an esoteric platform chooses to divert from the expected HTML 5<br>
rendering then it's likely because that platform knows more about what<br>
rendering is appropriate for that platform that you do.<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"></div></blockquote><div></div><div>I'm not sure the UA knows better than me how to render my web site, because this would mean it knows how to render every website in the whole world, better than its own author. It may know better than me how to render specific parts of it (ie widgets), but not all of it.</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="Ih2E3d">> I import the HTML5 style sheet inside author ones.<br>
<br>
</div>That's a very parochial view.<br>
<br>
In mainstream graphical browsers such importing would be redundant,<br>
because they'll have the expected behaviour anyway.</blockquote><div>Can I assume they'll have the expected behaviour? No I cannot, because HTML5 explictly says that UAs may render in every way they like.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br>
In esoteric user-agents you cannot know that the HTML 5 defaults provide<br>
a better user experience than those chosen by the user-agents'<br>
developers.<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"></div></blockquote><div>But I can know that it cannot provide a worse user experience, because, as I said, given a CSS and a media type (screen - interactive - visual), the rendering is always the same. Maybe scaled, wrapped, overflowed, but always the same. (yellow is still yellow, overflow: scroll still produces scrolling mechanisms, display:table renders a table, width:auto is like width:100% in non-floated non-positioned block-level elements, etc.)</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="Ih2E3d">
> I, implementor, want to provide backward-compatible rendering for<br>
> those author that didn't follow rule 1), I import HTML5 style sheet<br>
> inside UA defaults. In both case, a downloadable stylesheet would be<br>
> much appreciated.<br>
<br>
</div>I think a downloadable style-sheet is inevitable!</blockquote><div>Then let's wait for Ian to write one. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<font color="#888888"><br>
Smylers<br>
</font></blockquote><div></div><div>Giovanni </div></div>