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<DIV><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:atwilson@google.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:atwilson@google.com">Drew Wilson</A> </DIV>
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<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 29, 2009 11:56 AM</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 6:32 AM, Michael Kozakewich <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
title="mailto:mkozakewich@icosidodecahedron.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:mkozakewich@icosidodecahedron.com">mkozakewich@icosidodecahedron.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<FONT size=2 face=Arial>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman">-- Notifications: I don't think I've ever had Outlook
notify me of new mail when it's not running. It usually starts up with
Windows, and it runs in the background. If you turn it off from the tray, it
stops.</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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class=gmail_quote><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2
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<DIV>The way I've envisioned any of these "persistent running workers/pages"
operating is the browser would have a status bar icon which would allow
background apps to display status, and also give the user the opportunity to
exit the browser or (possibly) close down individual apps. So it's a very
similar situation.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Have you ever used Chrome's 'Create Application
Shortcuts...'? It's pretty neat how they work. You get a mini UI with an
option button (also the favicon), the title, and the mimize/maximize/close
buttons. The rest is the site itself. It's actually a modified browser tab,
but you'd never know it just by looking at it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I can close Chrome, and that one modified tab
with Google Reader will still be open. I've sized it to fit in a specific
part of my desktop, so it's really completely separate from the browser (except
that, if you look in Task Manager, the main browser process remains open,
invisibly, in the background). It even keeps my sizing and positioning
preferences, so it'll open in the same place next time I open it. I've got a
shortcut to it on my Quick Launch bar, set to a fancy 'Web 2.0' RSS icon. Every
once in a while, I can glance to the title of the 'application' or my Taskbar,
and the number of new feeds is auto-updated right there. I don't think it can
pop up a notification, yet, but I'd love it to play a sound when it finds more
feeds.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>If you want, you can also click the favicon (or
right click on its taskbar button) and select "Show as Tab" from
the menu, then drag that into the browser with the rest of your
tabs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>The salient bits:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>-Browser interface is
gone: lets the page have its
own navigation/toolbars.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>-In the background is a hidden process, which
writes the DOM and keeps the window open.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>-That background process isn't a hidden page, but
rather the browser process itself.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>-You can open it with a link,
which can starts with Windows if put in the Startup
folder.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>-It can be given a custom icon.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>The problems: </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>-No notification messages</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>-No minimization to the notification
area</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>-95% of the web can't use it without switching
browsers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>The solution:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>-Get other browsers to adopt certain elements from
this</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>-</FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Get everyone to
agree on a notification API</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>-Allow the option of minimizing to notification
area ("Hide window when minimized").</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>What I'd like is to hear of anything this doesn't
solve. Can invisible pages do anything that the invisible browser can't? An
invisible page controlling a visible page would still need the browser to be
open, so we'd actually have one less page open if it was just the browser and
the page. Browsers could also add an option where they'd secretly
stay on in the background, without being any less secure than it would be
to have your browser sitting open right now. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Is it easier that we ask browser vendors to
implement these changes, or to create the whole hidden-page
spec?</FONT></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>