Javascript for degradation [ Re: [whatwg] Suggested changes to Web Forms 2.0, 2004-07-01 working ]

[Matthew Raymond]

Jim Ley wrote:
>>>No, but we're excluding a solution because it cannot be done in HTC's
>>
>>   Actually, I've tested <object> in IE, and the <object> element in my
>>test didn't show up in the DOM using straight JScript, so I fail to see
>>what HTC even has to do with it.
> 
> you can provide the enhancement in other ways, such as inline script
> within the OBJECT element.

    Wouldn't such an inline script require <script>? That would mean for 
every <object> element, you'd require the web author to remember to put 
in a <script> element.

> This isn't possible with HTC's, I've
> already demonstrated an appropraite markup to allow for HTC support
> too.

    No, I don't think you did. All I saw was the contents of an <object> 
element wrapped in a <div>, with no explanation of what it was supposed 
to do. I presume you want a script to look for that <div> and implement 
behaviors accordingly, but that still doesn't give you the |form| 
attribute and other WF2 control-related attributes from the <object>.

>>>- that's my problem, even though HTC's are sub-optimal for the
>>>majority of situations (look at the two proposed examples, neither use
>>>HTC's)
>>
>>   Proposed examples?
> 
> http://whatwg.org/demos/
> 
> [javascript...]

    Of course. We haven't written the HTC yet, and may I point out that 
the Javascript does not perform everything WF2 does. It's only there as 
something for non-WF2 clients to gracefully degrade to. WF2 doesn't 
forbid Javascript a web page's in legacy user agent support.

>>   I'll defer to Dean on this one, as he is the expert.
> 
> He is _an_ expert, you know what, there are other people who have
> experience in HTC's in the world you know.

    Thank you for demonstrating just how little you often bring to the 
conversations on this mailing list. I should not have to defend every 
trivial choice of an article (a, the, et cetera).

>>http://listserver.dreamhost.com/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2004-July/001205.html
> 
> This appears to be a comparison between object and datalist, rather
> than a general discussion on Object.

    Clearly, if <object> is not better than <datalist>, it should not be 
used in its place. If <object> is an inferior solution, it doesn't 
matter how you'd implement it in IE.

>>>(so you'd need the DIV for the HTC solution, whereas the inline script
>>>wouldn't need the extra element)
>>
>>   Perhaps you should give us a HTML+Javascript example,
> 
> no time I'm afraid, I feel there's more than enough there for anyone
> with any javascript experience - you don't even need to be competent -
> to create an example.

    I'm not going to argue your points for you, especially when I don't 
understand what they are. Furthermore, if this code takes up so much of 
your precious time, why do you expect us to have time to do it for you?