[whatwg] Citing multiple <blockquote> elements in HTML5
Ian Hickson
ian at hixie.ch
Sun Nov 30 02:07:31 PST 2008
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Sam Kuper wrote:
>
> In the current HTML5 draft, section 4.4.6 The blockquote element states,
> "If a <blockquote> element is preceded or followed by a single paragraph
> that contains a single <cite> element and that is itself not preceded or
> followed by another blockquote element and does not itself have a <q>
> element descendant, then, the title of the work given by that <cite>
> element gives the source of the quotation contained in the <blockquote>
> element."
>
> Now, I think that being able to use a <cite> element to give the source
> of a <blockquote> element's contents is a useful step forward for HTML,
> and I approve of its being introduced in HTML5.
>
> However, I'm not sure that the criteria for determining the <cite>
> element are the best ones, as it looks to me as though they will rule
> out a common literary usage of block quotes: using a number of block
> quotes from different authors to preface a work or part of a work. Such
> usage is evident, for instance, in this book.
>
> If I understand section 4.4.6 correctly, then having:
>
> <blockquote>First quote.</blockquote>
> <p>First quote's author: <cite>First quote's reference</cite>.</p>
> <blockquote>Second quote.</blockquote>
> <p>Second quote's author: <cite>Second quote's reference</cite>.</p>
> <blockquote>Third quote.</blockquote>
> <p>Third quote's author: <cite>Third quote's reference</cite>.</p>
>
> in an HTML5 file will mean that only the third of these <cite> elements
> will be used as the reference for its preceding <blockquote>, because it
> is the only one of the three in a single paragraph "that is itself not
> preceded or followed by another blockquote element and does not itself
> have a <q> element descendant". This strikes me as problematic. How, in
> a case like this, should one mark up the block quotes and their
> references, without introducing extraneous elements?
>
> As a preliminary suggestion, perhaps it would be better if the spec
> said, "If a <blockquote> element is followed by a single paragraph that
> contains a single <cite> element and that is itself not preceded or
> followed by another blockquote element and does not itself have a <q>
> element descendant, then, the title of the work given by that <cite>
> element gives the source of the quotation contained in the <blockquote>
> element." It is, after all, normal in English and a number of other
> widely-used languages (though I cannot vouch for all languages - perhaps
> others will have some useful insights here) for the citation to be given
> following a block quote, where one is given.
I've removed the offending text.
I don't think we can say that quotes should always come before their
citations. For example, it's easy to imagine a blog that says:
<p><cite>Book The First</cite> says:</p>
<blockquote>...from book 1...</blockquote>
<p>But <cite>Book The Second</cite> says:</p>
<blockquote>...from book 2...</blockquote>
...which is equally problematic.
Frankly, I'm not sure this was solving any real problems anyway.
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
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