[html5] Appropriate markup for index documents

[Not Telling]

Do you mean that HTML is becoming more structure driven?

WHATWG standard section 3.4.4.2 "Kinds of content" talks about the different types of content - metadata, sectioning, flow, heading, phrasing, embedded and interactive. If elements describe their content rather than structure, this model no longer makes sense. An index can be a section, perhaps, but as an index describing the document's relationship to other documents, why not metadata? If the index is the whole page or significant part that might have sections, why not a sectioning route?
I'm being a bit silly with those examples, but even so, there is some room for argument there. Describing content is not the focus of the document outline.

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 17:25:34 -0500
Subject: Re: [html5] Appropriate markup for index documents
From: yrocsand at gmail.com
To: binderbound at hotmail.com
CC: andrew.croce at gmail.com; help at whatwg.org

On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Not Telling <binderbound at hotmail.com> wrote:



HTML is becoming increasingly focused on structure [...] There are examples in HTML where content is described, such as Blockquote, but these are mostly left behind from HTML 4
luke

Just curious, what is your basis for this conclusion? 
Subject: Re: [html5] Appropriate markup for index documents
From: andrew.croce at gmail.com
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 12:07:48 -0500
CC: help at whatwg.org
To: binderbound at hotmail.com

So what I was considering is something like a catalog…
<index> <!— What element should this be? —>	<header>		<h1>Catalog of Items</h1>		<p>A description of the catalog...</p>	</header>
	<nav>{some filters, perhaps}</nav>		<ol>		<li>Catalogued item #1</li>		<li>Catalogued item #2</li>		<li>Catalogued item #3</li>		...	</ol>
</index>

I suppose you could possibly argue that a <dl> might satisfy the semantics, though it wouldn’t really be a definition LIST, just sort of a highly abstracted definition… a stretch, I think. Also, its not clear how sectioning algorithms would handle the scope of a headings, for instance, in the context of a <dl>.
<dl>	<dt>		<header>			<h1>Catalog of Items</h1>			<p>A description of the catalog...</p>		</header>		<nav>{some filters, perhaps}</nav>	</dt>
	<dd>		<ol>			<li>Catalogued item #1</li>			<li>Catalogued item #2</li>			<li>Catalogued item #3</li>			...		</ol>	</dd></dl>
Andrew
On Dec 24, 2014, at 3:26 AM, Not Telling <binderbound at hotmail.com> wrote:
Misspelt help

From: binderbound at hotmail.com
To: andrew.croce at gmail.com
CC: hep at whatwg.org
Subject: RE: [html5] Appropriate markup for index documents
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 19:23:42 +1100

Hi Andrew
I believe a description list <dl> (previously definition list) would be the closest fit to what you describe. It has two accepted child elements - definition term <dt> to declare the term being defined and definition description <dd> which describes the term it follows. The page you describe would be the <dt> and a description od the page, or another sub-index for that term would fit under <dd>. Nesting gives you some degree of "sectioning" but not exactly in the way you want, I expect. Could you give a specific example of the usage you are talking about? Use invented elements if you want - I'm just unsure exactly what you mean.

Luke

From: andrew.croce at gmail.com
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 11:14:37 -0500
To: help at whatwg.org
Subject: [html5] Appropriate markup for index documents

I have been wondering about this for a while now, and I've finally gotten around to writing up the question: 
What is the appropriate semantic container element (if any) for an index document?
It seems to me that there is a gap in the semantic options for marking up index, or list, pages. Now, to be clear I realize there are list elements, but these are strictly for marking up the specific set of listed items. However, a list may have a larger context, which I am calling an index.
Like an article, an index might have a header and footer, and should probably contain a <ul> or <ol> where the items are listed. What comes to mind is something like a catalog, where the list itself has some meta information, and could itself contain sections or navigation. An <article> seems inappropriate since that should, I believe, be a single piece of content. A <section> also seems inappropriate in itself, unless its part of an even larger context. It could just be a <div>, or nothing at all, but I feel like there is some semantic value being missed.
So then, why is there no <index> element? I would be super curious to hear everyone's thoughts on this.
-- 
Andrew Croce
andrew.croce at gmail.com
andrewcroce.com
732.995.0590
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